From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 12:35 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #424; May 20, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #424; May 20, 2000 1. Toya is getting worse 2. Update on Scooter 3. Oscar & Scooter 4. Scooter's Glucose 5. Re: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose 6. Appearance of Pancreas 7. Vet Needed 8. Keegan Update 9. Sleepy FerretSo. Carolina 10. I bequeath? 11. Ants and Ferrets The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Toya is getting worse Date sent: Sat, 20 May 2000 16:43:17 -0500 From: "Lora Smith" Hi everyone, Its me and Toya again. Well things were going good for a few days, she seemed to be getting stronger. Dad has always told me that she seemed to have trouble with her back legs, walking and such. I figured she was just weak. Today he says she is alot worse and has lost control of her bowels and urination.She cannot hardly walk. This really puzzles me. He wonders if she has fallen and hurt her back? It seems really co-incidental, but also totally unrelated to her problem. So now I don't know what to do. I had told the vet of her problem when I took her in, but he pretty much dismissed it to weakness also. Have any of you had this problem before? Thanks for your help, Lora and Toya 2. Update on Scooter Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:55:38 -0500 From: "Mary Rogers" I just got the bad news that the blood test reveals probably kidney problems and not Insulinoma. We'll know more for sure when they recheck something with the globulin. Sorry I can't be more specific because I'm so upset and in shock, not to mention sitting here crying (and I'm at work). If it's kidney he only has 3 to 4 months. It could be because of the (insert your favorite swear word here) Aleutians Disease virus. I really don't want to loose another one, I've already lost 3 this year. Anybody out there been through kidney problems that could give me some advice? Mary and The 12 Munchkins 3. Oscar & Scooter Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 11:06:32 -0500 From: "Debi & David Christy" With insulinoma ferrets that have frequent or severe episodes, it's important to bear in mind that their metabolism needs protein... not just the sugar that brings them out of the episode (seizure, semi-coma, staring, bobbing, etc.) One of the simplest ways to get a lot of protein in them quickly & easily is with egg yolk. Separate the egg yolk from the egg white. Put the yolk in a small microwaveable bowl & stir in a little water. Nuke it & stir it & use a dropper to feed it to your fuzzy (you may have to add more water to make it soupy enough). One egg yolk contains enough protein one ferret's daily intake, even if they're not eating anything else. They still need the other nutrients in their regular food, but the additional egg yolk takes the worry out of wondering if they've eaten enough. I'm not a vet, just the Dr. Mom with 4 dozen eggs in her grocery cart. Debi Christy Ferrets First Foster Home 4. Scooter's Glucose Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 06:34:59 -0500 From: "DookDook" Dr Brown in her FAQ on insulinoma suggests adding 1/4 tablet of brewers yeast for the chromium which helps maintain a balanced sugar level. I also, feed mine a diet of jar of baby turkey food, 1/2 jar of pedialyte, and add either 1/4 to 1/2 can of real turkey meat or its equivalent. But in the blender and until smooth and it can be fed with an dropper. My Sammy loves this. He will eat about a jar full at one time and it lasts him for up to 6 hours. hugs of love Margie 5. Re: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose Date sent: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:17:42 EDT From: WGHOL@aol.com In a message dated 5/18/00 6:51:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << My Scooter "crashed" big time yesterday with a glucose of 23. Unfortunately the first sign. Of course I took him to my vet. Brought him home last night. He's still pretty lethargic, on pred twice a day, and fights when we force feed him. >> I hope Scooter is feeling better. I've enclosed a "soup" recipe that I use with my guys and is safe for insulinomic ferrets. The best advice is to give Scooter frequent feedings of a high protein low fat diet. Avoid anything sugary, (I'm sure you know all of this...:~) I hope all goes well! I wish you all the best, Wendi Easy Chicken Goop (for Insulinomic Ferts) - in a slow cooker with distilled water, cook your chicken/or/turkey pieces. (chicken is easier to digest) use an oven if a slow cooker is not available. Remove the excess skin and fat. - in a blender, pulverize a good quality ferret food (Totally Ferret or similar...) - When meat is cooked, puree it in the blender with the water keep the consistancy like a thin soup, add water as needed. - Mix this with the ground kibble and pour into ice cube trays for freezing (or small tupperware containers) - For serving, remove several cubes and keep in the fridge. Take out enough cubes for about four days feeding. About 2 tablespoons every three hours if the ferret is losing weight. - To feed, heat the mixture slightly in the microwave (9 secs.) Stir well and finger test to be sure it has no 'hot spots' which could cause injury. - Add about a 1/8 tsp. of FerretTone (Linatone) per serving. - Use a small plate to serve, and at first dip your finger into the mix and let the ferret lick it off. (it may take a while for them to get used to this mixture) This is a good mash for fattening up, it also helps ferrets take medications, which can be easily mixed into the chicken goop. Many people insist a bit of Nutrical or Ferretvite helps the energy levels of a fert with Insul. The amount should be very small, and I would add it only under close supervision. I also don't endorse the use of brewer's yeast with insulinomic ferrets. I recommend the use of Timmy's Tonic+ for any ailing ferrets available from " Gary Holowicki 602-957-3112 (after noon, MST, please, as I'm often up until 2-3 am.)" Add any medication or vitamin after heating! Good Luck WGHol@AOL.com 6. Appearance of Pancreas Date sent: Sat, 20 May 2000 14:04:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jennifer Hudson" I apologize for not updating about Jack's surgery sooner... His surgery was on the 12th and he is doing wonderfully, even picked up a little weight. His adrenals were fine, the spleen was slightly enlarged, but shrunk back to normal size when removed from the body. Here comes the tricky part... Jack's pancreas was hard and purplish instead of pink and snotty (technical term there from my vet!!). Additionally, there were no tumors or growths on or near the pancreas as is normally found with insulinoma. Dr. Allum still removed 1/3 of the pancreas to reduce the amount of insulin Jack is producing. He has responded wonderfully to pred and has not had a single episode since the first (and only) on Easter Sunday. He had his first out time this morning, he has been dying to get out, but I have kept him in a smaller cage restricting his activity and basically forcing him to rest (which he has been doing plenty of!). He went to work with me everyday this week because he has not been eating on his own, so he gets chicken gravy, AD and/or baby foods fed by hand. He has been out in the sun on a lead for 10 minutes at a time, just so he could stretch his legs, just no running or playing. In addition to the appearance of his pancreas, Jack has been very reluctant to eat on his own. He has not taken any kibble at all (my guys get a 50/50 mix of Iams Kitten and TF), and is not very willing to eat any mush out of a bowl. Is he just enjoying the attention of eatnig off my fingers or should there be some concern? He is not a cuddly ferret by any stretch of the imagination. He is between 5-6 and very, very, VERY active, he usually outlasts my 2 year old and has little problem keeping up with the 5 month old baby! He prefers to run, run, run and then run some more! Even when tired he is not one to cuddle. So, I don't believe he is using the hand feeding as a means of getting more lap time. Actually, I usually have to hold him with one hand to keep him from trying to get down. He will eat a substantial amount off my fingers, so I am not worried about him as far as ingesting enough nutrition, just the concern that I cannot take him to work forever!!! I am allowing him to nap with his cagemates now and am hoping part of his problem is being alone. Anyway, I am rambling, any suggestions, feedback, experiences will be so very much appreciated!!! Hugs to everyone, Jen and Gang ........................................................ iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? ........................................................ 7. Vet Needed So. Carolina Date sent: Sat, 20 May 2000 00:49:55 -0700 From: "william r castro" I will be spending next 5 months in So Carolina and in need of experienced ferret vet for on going treatment of an adrenal ferret. I will be in the Beaufort, Yemassee area zip code 29945 area code (843). About 1 hr from Savannah GA, inland of Charleston SC. I could not find any shelters on the shelter list in FML to contact. There were no ferret vets listed at all in SC. Of course, I will drive some insane amount of miles for qualified vet. But for emergencies would like someone as close as possible. I am an experienced ferret owner and need to have confidence in a vet. Because you know how "picky" we ferret owners are. This is not an emergency but will need a vet within next 3 weeks. Thanks for any help someone can give me. Jeanie Williams ferretnurse@juno.com 8. Keegan Update Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:21:28 EDT From: JHerge9760@aol.com Hello all. I thought I would give you an update on Keegan and hopefully some caring words to give you all a warm thought. We went in for her monthly bg check and the results came back unbelievable - 116. That is 60 points higher than it was one month ago. All due to the Pred. I thought I was going to cry when the vet told me. Keegan had the insulinoma surgery in March and has showed no signs of slowing down since. They cut her Pred down t 1x a day. Even though I know I am a paranoid freak when it comes to my fuzzies I know she is the strongest ferret I have ever heard of and she will live a long happy life. I'm even getting teary-eyed just telling you about her. My ferrets are my pride and joy. I wanted to thank everyone for all your advice and my family for helping to take care of my babies. I know we all have a long road ahead but we have to think positively if something does happen we know they have had a great life. Some people aren't as caring and wouldn't even try like I have seen on this website. They just give up. I lost a fuzzy to Auto Immune Shutdown Syndrome two years aso and now realize it was nothing I did beacuse I did everything. I hope you all remember that. Thanks for listening, Stephanie and the babes (Keegan, Kayla, Maya, and Max) 9. Sleepy Ferret Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:52:27 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com hi, My ferret sleeps a lot.....I have determined it's either boredom or just his nature. You see he's healthy (adrenals gone) appetite good w/duck soup feedings. When he's awake he is active that is actively looking for something to do. I play with him and have a tunnel hose that he enjoys but I don't have any other ferrets because I have three cats. I feel bad sometimes for Bandit cause he tries to get in with the kitties but they can only tolerate so much of him. Strange thing though he gets along fine with my 2 female cats, one he licks behind the ears and follows around, and one is so big he knows he can only go so far with her and the newest my male cat he chases endlessly. Is it because he's male or still new??? I know a lot of people have more then one ferret could it be that he's bored and lonely and that's why he sleeps so much. Any suggestions for toys or games another ferret is not thinkable at this time. It seems that Bandit's always slept a lot, I thought it was caused by the adrenal disease now I know that that's not it. Bandit's 4 years old, does anybody else have a normal sleepy fellow?? Thanx 10. I bequeath? Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 16:37:43 +0000 From: Linda.Doran@att.net For some time now, I've needed to draw up some kind of will should anything happen to me. I've had difficulty determining a way to help ferrets. I know there's been talk of establishing a central clearinghouse, if you will, for helping ferret shelters. Is there a suitable organization that helps ferrets that might serve as a beneficiary? 11. Ants and Ferrets Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:21:44 -0500 (CDT) From: "Buetow" Hi everybody, Best wishes to all the fuzzies, but especially those not feeling well or about to to through surgery. I've already asked some individual members of the list this question, but I thought I would throw it out there. Last week I had ants in the ferret room. The ferrets are along an inside wall and I can't find where they are getting in the house. They were getting in the food dishes and I was throwing the food away. I tried a few things and I think I have them frustrated for the moment. But does anybody know of any products that will get rid of ants but are ferret safe? Thanks for your help! Chris and the Sunshine Gang with AD and Pippy always in our hearts buetowc@sls.lib.il.us ----------------------- End of FAIML #424 -------------------------