From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 10:39 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #429; May 30, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #429; May 30, 2000 1. Technical question for vets 2. malignant right adrenal 3. so far successful right adrenal surgery 4. addition 5. Bob's Chicken Gravy website 6. Bad Breath 7. Rescue Remedy The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Technical question for vets Date sent: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:23:39 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Recently, "Ferrets" magazine had part one of a two part article on insulinoma by Christine Ellis, DVM, Midwest Bird and Exotic AH in Illinois. In the article, she states that normal, post-fasting blood glucose levels fall between "90 and 125 ng/dl (nanograms/decileter)." What? 90-125 BILLIONTHs of a gram per deciliter? That's so infinitesimal an amount that it seems hard to believe that could be right. She spelled out nanogram, so it wasn't a typo. What happened to 90-125 mg/dl (milligrams/deciliter)as stated in every medical text I've ever read? For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * South Florida Ferret Help Line, 305-752-7040 * * Website: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 2. malignant right adrenal Date sent: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:15:09 -0700 From: "M.Jo" Hello fellow Ferret Lovers! I don't post here often, but do read and try to keep up as I've dealt with both adrenal and insulinoma problems. Right now I have 8 remaining ferrets, 5 have had adrenal surgery, 1 probably will have surgery within a year, & 1 has also started insulinoma, but we are treating her with herbs and diet and she seems to be maintaining, plus she has started Lupron. Another check-up a week from Tues. to make sure. I just lost my 6 year old after an almost 3 year battle with insulinoma. His heart finally just quit beating. Think the preds took their toll! Plus one I had who had adrenal/insulinoma surgery that I lost 3 years ago. But the reason I am posting is I now have something to look forward to that I haven't faced before in all the adrenals in the past. I've had three surgeries in the past 4 weeks, one didn't make it, one had a malignant left adrenal which the lab tests seem to show it was contained and they feel it was completely removed, but the other one (who happens to be a brother of his, we think) had a malignant right adrenal. Unfortunately it couldn't be completely removed as when it started bleeding, my vet did not feel it was wise to go any further. She removed as much as she could without going too far at the time. I will say I feel very comfortable with our vet as I will travel 85 miles for her to care for all my little guys and she is so concerned, caring and well respected and admired for her work with ferrets in our area. She is not afraid to call other vets for guidance and help when she runs into problems. I just don't want anyone to feel I have someone who doesn't know how to take care of these little guys. But she is only human. What I want to know is....what do I have to look forward to with Bilbo? This tumor seemed to come on so quickly I'm afraid it may return the same. My vet feels it may be at least 6 months, but then she said she has had some that never return. I hope that is true, but my luck hasn't been running that way lately. It seemed like all of a sudden, within 2 months he blew his fur on his backend. I've never had one blow it all at once. And his tumor was big and ugly as Dr. Van Ervin said. Right now you'd think there was nothing wrong with him. He can weasle war dance better than any ferret I've ever seen and he could give flying squirels lessons on how to fly. He climbs, plays, and is generally obnoxious, and I love him. He was up 3 hours after his surgery wanting out, food, water and whatever. Dr. Van keeps them at least 2-3 days to make sure all is well, and I'll tell you, they were all ready to have him go home. He was a real pill, thank heavens! But I need to know if there is anything else I can do to delay the return of his malignant right tumor? And what is the best way to treat it if/when it does return. I'm just hoping there is something that can be done for him. I know they can't live forever, but he is only 4 years old. Young in my book. Thank you in advance for any help anyone can offer. Love and hugs to all the little fuzzies, healthy and ill. We love them all! mjo and the zoo (Lady Star, Topanga, Ragine, Bilbo, Frodo, Frito, Pepper, & Caesar and the dogs Garth and Darwin......r.i.p. PHANTOM, Nipper, EZ, Lightning, Cleo, & Duke) 3. so far successful right adrenal surgery Date sent: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:49:41 -0500 From: "Rich & Stacie Armstrong" This is our first post - we are the happy parents of two "weasels," Bandit and Ali. Bandit, who just turned four, had right adrenal surgery last Friday. Luckily we have a ferret expert just a few blocks away. Over the past few weeks, we noticed Bandit becoming more pot-bellied and less active. At first we figured she was just gaining weight and adjusting to her life stage as a middle-aged ferret, since she continued to eat fine and play with her sister just as eagerly as before. We were struck at how quickly things changed as she became more lethargic. We rushed her to the vet. The right adrenal was so large it was mostly blocking her vena cava (sp?), resulting in an enlarged spleen which was also removed, and a pale-looking liver, I'm hoping just due to a lack of proper blood flow. This vet saved her life and didn't hesitate to perform this very difficult surgery. He believes that the tumor was an adrenal one, but he suggested we order a biopsy which will rule out other cancers, such as liver, etc., but this will not be completed until Friday. As you all can imagine, we are very pleased yet cautious. But so far, so good. Bandit is sleeping a great deal and perking up occasionally; she's eating and drinking well. Since this is a new experience for us, we are wondering what to expect from here. In particular, are other forms of cancer common among ferrets? Does this sound like a typical adrenal tumor which has been successfully removed? Also, how do post-adrenal-surgery ferrets tend to behave around their siblings? We've noticed that Bandit is particularly aggressive now towards Ali (even as we've closely supervised their very brief and relatively tame play time), but that may be due to her general discomfort or pain after surgery. Any thoughts? thanks!!! Bandit Stacie, Rich Armstrong and Ali banditarm@home.com 4. addition Date sent: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:00:52 -0500 From: "Rich & Stacie Armstrong" I meant to add that Bandit had none of the typical signs of adrenal disease. There was no hair loss this year, although in past years her tail would lose some of it's hair but would always grow back in early fall. Other than her sudden lethargy and dragging of her tummy (we initially suspected a blockage), she didn't seem like your typical presentation for adrenal disease. 5. Bob's Chicken Gravy website Date sent: Sun, 28 May 2000 19:42:44 EDT From: "Susan D." There is a wonderful site with pictures and information to making Bob's Chicken Gravy. It's at www.trifl.org/makingravy.html. Pam Sessoms maintains the page and was very helpful in answering questions when I was ready to finally take the plunge. The best hint I got was to put the chicken in the crock pot for several hours before making the gravy. I had no problem when I put it in the blender. This site is wonderful! Thanks everyone that's recommended vets for me in the N. Ky/Greater Cincinnati area. I found one with insulinoma experience so hopefully I can get on track and get these seizures under control. I really appreciate the recipes and advice I've received also. It all has helped. Susan D. 6. Bad Breath Date sent: Mon, 29 May 2000 11:14:01 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com Hi everyone, Bandit's still eating duck soup and won't touch his kibble, it's difficult because he's lap fed and enticed with my finger until he starts lapping it up. I can't complain I'm just happy he eats and he's even put on weight. He's about 3 pounds 6 ounces as compared to his average (2.5-2.8) although he had adrenal disease back then and his appetite I believe was poor. I'm a little concerned because I noticed Bandit's breath is really fowl and I never noticed that before, and I know cause I'm forever kissing him. I thought maybe this had to do with a liquid diet meat based, does anybody else notice the same with duck soup eaters??? I also noticed a black spot coming through the tooth enamel (typical cavity), I know the hard food helps remove tartar and is better for the teeth. Any suggestions on oral hygiene for ferrets and should I be concerned about his bad breath? Also how do I know if I'm over feeding him?? I feed him about (3- 4)x a day and about (3-4)tablespoons per sitting. Any suggestions on how to get him back on kibble??? You know his stools are almost always soft and last week were mucousy, grainy, gooey, with a green cast I just don't know what's going on his diet has stayed the same. Thanks in advance, Christina & Bandit 7. Rescue Remedy Date sent: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:17:17 -0300 From: "Heidi Lepak" Here goes my question. I only have 15 days before the big move. It has been suggested to me to purchase a product called Rescue Remedy, made by Bach. It is a homeopathic remedy which helps produce positive calming in a wide range of stressful situations. Could moving 2 ferrets from Puerto Rico to Tampa, Florida be stressful? I am not thinking of me but my little babies. Anyway I have received the product. Now has any one ever used it or know of anyone who has. And what would be the recommended dosage. Some one mentioned a few drops in their water, and also a drop behind their ear on traveling day. I was just hoping that someone has used this product. HELP!!!!!!!! New Page added on Lupron Therapy www.geocities.com/huronna/Lupron.html We survived the Petsburgh Critique www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Zoo/3133 http://communities.msn.com/Ferret ICQ# 33966544 Defending those who cannot defend themselves! http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/2303 ----------------------- End of FAIML #429 -------------------------