From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:28 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #436; June 13, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #436; June 13, 2000 1. Gidget losing hair POST URGENT 2. NEED ADVICE AND ANSWERS! 3. Melatonin for right adrenal? 4. Here we go again 5. Various Questions 6. Questions re: Hormone Replacements 7. Reply: FAIML #435; June 15, 2000 8. ECE virus?? 9. Reply: FAIML #435; June 15, 2000 10. Reply: FAIML #434; June 12, 2000 The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Gidget losing hair POST URGENT Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 21:50:42 -0500 From: "Sue Stout" Hi everyone, My name is Gidget and I just turned three years old this April. I am a little chocolate girl and I was adopted when I was 1 from a shelter (my original mom didn't want me). I am very happy now and I love my mom. My mom taught me not to bite and I like to give her kisses. I have a sister and 4 brothers that I live with. We are all very happy. My brother Jonesy has insulinoma and my mom has to give him medicine all the time. At first, we were all jealous of the attention mom had to give him but now we all know he is sick and needs it. My problem is that my mom is very very worried about me now. She wakes me up all the time just to love on me and check on me. Mom says it looks like I have lost lots of weight and that I had a really bad heavy shed. In fact, mom says I am still shedding and that I don't have all that much hair to lose now. (I used to have a beautiful coat - full, rich and heavy). I shiver all the time now and I don't know why. I don't have any bald spots or baldness on my tail. Mom keeps saying maybe I have adrenal disease but I hope not since it sounds like a bad thing to have. My mom is scared for me and my other humans are too. Should they be scared or did I do a normal shed for a really hot season? Mom is giving me hairball stuff YUCK! (I don't like it!). And she is always trying to see me poop. She is worried I might have a hairball with all the hair I have lost. I drink alot of water, but don't let mom see if I am eating and I know that worries her too, because she keeps trying to make me eat that Hills AD stuff that she gives to Jonesy. He likes it but I sure don't.. I like to sleep alot too and that worries mom. MOM says she wants to take me to the vets on Monday. Does anyone have any ideas that I can tell mom? She said alot of you helped her when she first had problems with Jonesy. I sure hope so. Thanks, Gidget 2. NEED ADVICE AND ANSWERS! Date sent: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:02:22 EDT From: JHerge9760@aol.com Hello again all. I need some more advice and some questions answered. First I should tell you all that my living situation has been saved and I am able to keep taking care of my own babies. My parents have decided to keep our house. I brought Maya home after having her adrenal surgery (the right one of course) on Tuesday. Today - Friday I decided to let her visit with the 3 other fuzzies. When I did this Keegan my oldest female attacked Maya. Everytime she can get a chance she goes after her neck like she's a pitt bull. Except for Keegan none of the other ferrets have been away from the house overnight. Could this be why she is attacking her. It is like Keegan has never met Maya before even though they have been living togather for 2 years. I know Maya should be isolated for a couple more days but when the time comes that sha can go back into the big cage - what should I do??? Sorry so long. Hope someone can help or let me know if this has ever happened to you. Also - Maya's adrenal tumor was cancerous what does this mean? Is her prognosis different than Keegan's whose adrenal tumor was non-cancerous??? HELP Stephanie and the four trouble makers 3. Melatonin for right adrenal? Date sent: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:47:52 -0400 From: "Michele Walz" Where can I find out some more information on using Melatonin for right adrenal gland probs? I am interested in reading about it. I have a 7 yo male, Odin, who had surgery last year on his left adrenal. Right now Lupron and more surgery are not an option for me. He started showing signs again of adrenal probs several months ago (hair is a little thinner and so is he). He is holding his weight good and eating good. He does seem to sleep a lot more, but still comes out to play some. Thank you. Michele 4. Here we go again Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:56:52 -0300 From: "Amy Claire Dempsey" Well just when it looks like my 3 (its so hard to imagine that all I have left) are doing great it appears that my BJ, alais Whiteness, is adrenal. We are going to go in next week, and I am going to watch the surgery and stay with him until they let me take him home. I just don't want to not be there in case... I watched them do the second surgery on Jack ( my double adrenal) and helped them when he busted his stitches so I guess I will get to know what 2 of my ferrets look like inside and out. Jack is doing wonderful by the way and seems to be feeling like a kit again. I am also going to have the vet clean Odie's teeth, they are rotten and her breath is awful, but what do you expect from a ferret who will be 10 years in less than 2 months! I just don't want to let them get any worse since gum disease can lead to so many other things. She was one of my first ferrets and only started showing signs of insulinoma at 8 yrs. She's been on pred for about 2 years and pred and proglycem for about a year. She does sleep 23/24 hours - but she has her rug at the foot of my bed and no matter where you put her down in the house she can make it to the rug in 30 seconds or less. She still has her toys.... but she only goes and lays on them and doesn't carry them anymore. The saddiest thing is that I see her looking for her friends...at 10 years she out lived everyone but my baby boys (who are 5 1/2 years.) Wish me luck with BJ, I appreciate all the good thoughts and prayers. Amy and her 3 fur snakes 5. Various Questions Date sent: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 03:41:38 -0400 From: "Dale Nupp" Leann writes: >Was just looking for some information regarding Insulinoma. My friend's ferret >may possibly have it. How long is the survival rate? I read somewhere that the average survival rate is 456 days post diagnosis. I mentioned this to my vet and he seemed to think this was kind of low, even for an average. He said he has six ferrets that he diagnosed with insulinoma at five years of age and all are doing fine, with various forms of treatment, three years later. Although that is not a scientific sample, it does give hope for a contiuned quality life. >Also I've given her information to view Mike Janke's and Pam Greene's sites for further information. Both very helpful sites!!!!!!!!! Mike writes: >I usually mix the pred I have to give, be it pediapred or regular prednisone, into >soft food and my Beasley eats it without any hesitation. I think giving it directly >would probably result in some head shaking and pretty nasty looks at the very >least. It should be given with food anyway, so I would suggest to her to try >mixing it into some soft food. I must really be lucky. My Odo loves his pediapred and thinks of it as a treat. It has gotten so bad that I have to fill the syrengie (sp?) out of the room so he does not try and steal the pediapred bottle. :o) Dale Missing Burt 6. Questions re: Hormone Replacements Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:02:49 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com In a message dated 6/13/00 1:28:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: Dr. Murray, Bandit's recent blood work indicates that his Sodium Potassium levels are fine, I believe the ratio was 36:4 why should I worry about destroying possible remains of Adrenal tissue if it's needed for his survival? Dr. Weiss informed me that the goal of his surgery was to remove the left adrenal and freeze all of the right and that he may or may not need hormone replacements. I naturally asked how could it be possible for Bandit to survive w/out the hormone replacement, he responded by saying that sometimes these hormones are produced in other parts of the body that not enough on this subject is really known. Bandit as I mentioned has hairloss on his tail but has no other signs of Adrenal Disease, my thinking is that he still has Adrenal tissue left and that's why he's not on any HR. So should I be concerned??? if he's other then hairloss healthy? If I destroy the Adrenal tissue completely he will need replacements and he could be a high risk for Addison's Disease so what's the goal here, it's so confusing. I appreciate your help. Thanx Christina 7. Reply: FAIML #435; June 15, 2000 Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:16:18 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com Hi Sandy, I would suggest having your vet run an adrenal panel which checks their hormone levels and suggests which hormone is being over produced and which glad produces that hormone. I can't remember the name of the test, something Tennessee? Anyway I personally believe the sooner the surgery the better, I would think if your vet is experienced with the surgery he could tell which gland is affected and he would just remove the gland itself. I don't hear of them debulking the tumor any more unless it's in both glands generally they remove the gland because it's infected by the tumor. You may want to get a second opinion here before doing surgery and make sure this vet is experienced. Ask him/her if they remove the gland totally or just the tumor, my ferret had adrenal surgery and I was told the whole gland must be removed if the disease is in the left adrenal. Also you may want to up your duck soup feedings to (3-4) times a day to increase his strength and make him nice and healthy especially if you suspect he's not eating enough. Good Luck, Christina 8. ECE virus?? Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 19:58:15 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com Hi everyone, (Any Doctors reading tonight-help?) Once again I'm in need of your ferret expertise! I'm having some problems with Bandit and I'm not sure what I can do for him this time. Bandit started pawing at his mouth and trying desperately to vomit this took place 3 days ago and continued on and off for (2-3) days. It was more like he had the dry heaves only once did a small amount of saliva come up. In addition to this new behavior his stools have been so crazy for the last 2-3 weeks and now seem even worse. Sometimes there yellow or dark green with some brown they almost always have mucous and are very gooey (hope no ones eating now). Anyway I took him to the vet prior to the pawing at the mouth and dry heaves for the stool problem and for his foul breath. At the time the vet suggested Clavimox for the stools in case it was a bacteria and also for the gingivitis I had mentioned that Bandit spit up just once (this was before the above) and he said if it was just once not to worry. So I thought everything would be O.K., I went on vacation for a week and took Bandit with me to be safe and because he's on duck soup and no one else could feed it to him but me. Anyway he absolutely hated the antibiotics but gave in and took them, I noticed his foul breath was gone but the stools were worse. Toward the tail end of our vacation Bandit started trying to spit up and pawing at his mouth, he refused eating for a day and a half, but I forced some liquids. I stopped the antibiotics when these behaviors started which was 7 days into the drug. We immediately came home and took Bandit to the vet, he did blood work and everything looked good-blood glucose, kidney & liver function, and electrolytes were just fine. I also had them do a radiograph to check for a blockage and the vet couldn't find anything. The vet said to give him some pepto and see how it goes. I'm real concerned about these green stools and I know that ECE virus sounds similar to what Bandit has. What can I do for him? He seems a little better these last two days because he's eating a little now and a little more alert and active but the stools still are not looking good. I'm reluctant to start another antibiotic so quickly especially when I think it's contributing to the weird stool and could even be making him nauseous. Can someone help?? Sorry this is so long. Thanx Christina & Bandit 9. Reply: FAIML #435; June 15, 2000 Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:08:10 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com Hi Linda, I'm so sorry to hear about Misty, how old is she again? She won't take any food off of your finger? I have a good duck soup recipe if you think it would help, e-mail me. Christina & Bandit 10. Reply: FAIML #434; June 12, 2000 Date sent: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:50:02 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com In a message dated 6/13/00 1:28:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << scwagner@webtv.net >> Hi Sharon, I just discovered a great all natural herbal shampoo for ferrets which helped Bandit tremendously. He was itchy too and hair was dry, try it it's called "Herbal Fresh Shampoo & Conditioner," you can purchase it online or on the phone-the website is the ferret store.com and shipping is free they also include a small packet of Zupreem a premium ferret food. I noticed a difference the first time I used it and it's non toxic made up of natural soothing ingredients. Good Luck, Christina & Bandit ----------------------- End of FAIML #436 -------------------------