From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 2:21 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #439; July 4, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #439; July 4, 2000 1. Champ 2. Need advice on glucose related neurological damage 3. Reggie Has Lumps 4. Possible Adrenal/Skin Cancer Need Advive 5. Sabrina and Lupron 6. Winnie - spots in ears 7. I found out part of my question 8. Predisone for Insulinoma 9. On the road again, & FFDRI update The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Champ Date sent: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 07:46:04 -0400 From: "katharine" My 3 y.o. little boy, Champ, will be going in for adrenal surgery next week. We are going merely on symptoms. He has been losing fur on his hind end for several months and his prostate is huge. I felt it yesterday. It feels about the size of a pecan. Is there anything special I should know about little boys having adrenal surgery? My only experience thus far has been with Lily, a female (obviously). Randy will be doing cryosurgery on Champ and I plan to be right there watching. Champ seems to be blowing the "early neuter" theory. He came from a private breeder and I had him neutered when he was 5-6 months old, still fairly early but he started showing agressive tendencies, so we went ahead with it. He just turned 3 in May, kind of early for this type of problem in my opinion. I've been trying to analyze what's going on. 1. My first two ferrets (Lucy and Lily, both MF) ate Hill's Science Diet. Lucy died of lymphoma at 2 1/2. Lily ate HSD her first two years and then was switched to Hill's K/D because of liver problems. She stayed on K/D the rest of her life (picky little girl). She had two adrenal surgeries, the first before she was 4 y.o., the second after her 4th birthday. I had her euthanized this March (at 6 1/2 y.o.) after she was diagnosed with lymphoma and underwent chemo for 4 months. The disease finally got the best of her. 2. Champ and Blaze (brother and sister, both 3 y.o., private breeder, both de- sexed at 5-6 months old) have both been on TF and Iams Kitten their whole lives. Now, Champ has adrenal disease. Will Blaze probably get it too (just thinking out loud)?? 3. Lany (Petersen Farms) started out on Science Diet, then switched over to TF and Iams. Lily never would switch (picky little girl). Lany is 5 1/2 and has never been sick a day in her life (other than a few allergies which are taken care of with a little bit of Benadryl). She did have a mast cell tumor removed from her belly a few months ago, and all is fine now. 4. They all got into Lily's K/D (I think they preferred it over TF and Iams) but Lily never ate the other food. 5. Cedes is 5-6 y.o., a recent rescue (also MF). He is as healthy as a horse and was fed Friskies Ocean Flavor his entire life. I have switched him over to TF and Iams with the Friskies as a treat. Never went to the vet until I got him in February, no vaccinations, no anything. 6. They don't get a whole lot of treats; the occasional raisin is about it. They all get duck soup twice a week, and Champ adores Cheweasels. Well, Champ does love pizza crust also, so he helps me eat a little of that. They occasionally get a lick of ice cream/frozen yogurt and a drop or two of milk from my glass. All in all, treats are kept to a minimum. Other than the variety of foods served here, there are no other differences, other than genetics. I really wish we could figure this thing out. I feel like I do the very best for my little ones and it's not good enough. Just musing out loud. I really never expected Champ or Blaze to have adrenal problems. And, just to comment on a recent thread on the FML, none of mine have ever been abused, unless you count yelling on occasion . BTW, they all went to the vet yesterday for 6-month check-ups and they all had ear mites! Now where did those come from????? All had their ears flushed and are on oral Ivermectin for 4 weeks (once a week). What fun for all of us. Now, the power of suggestion is making me itchy too . I have four new baby opossums here (25g), eyes just starting to open. They are kept totally isolated from the ferrets so I don't think the mites came from them. Their ears all look perfectly clean and clear. I did just recently release 11 opossums so it's possible the mites came from them but I can't, for the life of me, figure out how they could have gotten them either. They were all with me since they weighed less than an ounce and lived inside the entire time. Katharine 2. Need advice on glucose related neurological damage Date sent: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 16:47:32 -0600 (CST) From: "John Rosloot" I need some advice on my little fuzz-girl Cassie. Last Thursday morning I found Cassie lying under my bed. She was very lethargic and had poop smeared in her fur. She had seemed ok when I went to bed, but otherwise might have been like that all night for all I know. I brought her to the vet, and she pooped on the way; it was kinda slimy and a little green. The vet checked her over and we both figured it was an intestinal virus, especially since Cassie had shown similar symptoms several years ago which cleared up on their own after 5 days (all the frantic tests I had run at that time showed nothing). The vet said she also had a slight fever, and her blood sugar was very low. The vet kept her overnight, gave her some subcutaneous fluids and an injection of a steroid related to prednisone, and said her fever cleared up afterwards and she ate a little. I've suspected for over a year that Cassie has mild insulinoma because she occasionally shows some weakness in her hind legs, but since she had never shown any more serious symptoms I hadn't been overly worried about it. In recent months she's started to lose some hair, though it's not much so far, so I was planning to watch her for the next couple of months and then probably bring her in for adrenal/insulinoma surgery. I felt there was no cause for alarm since Sammy had been through both these conditions with much more pronounced symptoms. Anyway, now we get to the worrying part. Over the weekend I noticed Cassie is tending to travel in little counter-clockwise circles. I started to wonder if she might have had a stroke. She showed a little improvement over the weekend; her poop became more normal looking, and she started to walk again, but was very unsteady on her feet and continued to 'pull to the left'. She also started to eat and drink a little on her own but nowhere near normal levels. I've been force feeding her a kibble porridge, and giving her prednisone that I had left over from Sammy (his insulinoma surgery a few months ago was a big success). She's at the substitute vet today (my vet is away this week). She says her blood sugar is still low and she's a little dehydrated again. She says the 'pulling to the left' is fairly indicative of a neurological problem, although perhaps not permanent. She says a stroke is possible, but also that prolonged low blood sugar can cause neurological damage. I had never heard this before, and would certainly have acted sooner if I had thought Cassie might get brain damage from low blood sugar. Is this true? Is it common? How bad is it? Can anyone provide any advice on possible/likely causes for Cassie's condition, on tests to determine the exact cause, and on how to make her better? She seems alert, her personality seems normal, but she's having so much trouble getting around, and keeps going in circles. Plus she's hardly eating, partly because she seems too uncoordinated to get much down. I weighed her this morning and she's 1/2 lb below normal (normal being 2 lbs), though it's been a couple of months since I last weighed her so I don't know whether this was sudden or gradual. She seems lighter and thinner and hasn't been eating much of course so I'm thinking it was sudden. Cassie will be 8 years old in August by the way. I hate to see her like this. Can anyone please give me some advice? -- John Rosloot, Caregiver to Cassidy and Sammy With loving memories of my dear departed Buddy Technical analyst, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~john/ferrets john@cs.uregina.ca 3. Reggie Has Lumps Date sent: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 09:27:26 -0400 From: "Erin Shepherd" Hello all. Well, I only write when things go wrong and I'm alarmed. I have another situation with Reggie, my 5.5 year old male. I came home Friday to find two large (thumb size) lumps, one on either side of his spine around his hind area. I immediately ran him to the vet - Dr. Brown (in Dr. Brumfield's absence) took x-rays and blood. She mentioned something about possible kidney failure, and I freaked. Thankfully, the x-rays revealed that it wasn't the kidney's, or any vital organ. They are two masses just under the skin. Reggie doesn't seem bothered by them either. The blood work is supposed to reveal whether or not it is an infection, but I haven't found out yet. The doc wants to do an aspiration/biopsy and check the fluid inside the lumps.. I suppose that would tell us if it is a malignancy. I am hesitating, because I don't want Reggie cut on anymore.. Reggie has had insulinoma for months now, has already had surgery for adrenal (left adrenal removed) - He had a 6 month Lupron shot last month because the symptoms came back. (Doc says that she's pretty sure the Lupron is unrelated to this new growth) He is on a strict diet, with two high protein meals/day. I fear it might be Lymphoma / Lymposarcoma, but I don't want to make any assumptions. I am surprised at how quickly these things popped up.. just all of a sudden. The doc presented me with two possibilities: cancer or infection; but I just thought of a third yesterday: bug bite reaction --- there are two tiny bumps, one on each mass. Reggie has a play pen outside, and I'm thinking it could be a reaction from a bite. Anyway, I would appreciate your thoughts on this. Have you seen this before? Erin in Tallahassee -- Please respond to me at ees@ahhif.org ~~<:))))><~~~<:))))><~~~<:))))><~~~~~~ >*)((((((>>><~~ Erin E. Shepherd ees@ahhif.org 4. Possible Adrenal/Skin Cancer Need Advive Date sent: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 15:07:07 -0700 From: "Corrie (MsFerret)" Hello, My name is Corrie. I have been a ferret owner for 15 years. I currently have 6 ferrets and 2 are taking Lupron injections for adrenal. About 2 months ago I picked up a neglected ferret at a garage sale. His name is Podo and he is 2-3 years old. He was missing a path of fur about 1" by 2" about an inch above his tail. The other day I noticed two things. The hair is slightly thinning between his shoulders and he has these orange/red spots comming from his pores. They are not oozing they are just there. We though maybe it was an allergic reaction to just shampooing the carpet and moved him into another room. The only change I have seen since then is the spots on his chest have dissapeared. The majority of the spots are in his bald area on his lower back and some scatered along his upper back. He seems to be sleeping more than normal and Just started scatching his body alot today. Otherwise he seems healthy. He saw Dr. Beeber in NJ the other day and he would like to do a skin biopsy and if there is more hair loss an ultrasound. I really don't want the ultrasound because they are not very accurate. Next week Podo is going to another vet for the Tenn, Adrenal Bloodtest. And pre-op bloodwork because I feel this is going to turn into an adrenal surgery. I am not comfortable with my local vets doing this surgery so I will be going to one about 2 hours away in NJ recommened by Kista Ferret Rescue. Has anyone experienced these red/orange spots before?They are definately not from scratching. Thanks Any comments or recommendations greatly appretiated. Corrie The Ferrets: Satchmo,Band-Aid,Flea,Garbonzetta,Zoey,Podo The Cat: Misty Visit us at http://www.geocities.com/~loveferrets.indexo.html Visit my favorite Shelter at http://www.kistaferret.com Visit and Join Ferret Lovers of New Jersey http://www.lma.com/flnj 5. Sabrina and Lupron Date sent: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 20:37:08 -0400 From: cdriver@wvu.edu Hi, all. Just wanted to update on Sabrina, my little girl who presented adrenal again shortly after her left surgery. We got her on a four-month Lupron depot on June 1st, and the vulvar swelling was gone within two weeks. We weren't sure if the hair was going to grow back, and then *BOOM* all of a sudden she had a teensy bit of stubble, and over the last few days she's been growing it back in so thick and fast that it's a little creepy, sort of like watching a Play-Doh Barber Shop head. I swear once they start healing, they're like little kudzus. Anyway, the Lupron appears to be working wonders, and it's bought us significant time if nothing else. One thing that does really concern me... since she originally presented, Sabrina's had mild prolapse after pooping. There's a little blood and clear discharge from her butt when it happens, but it's red and moist, not dark and tarry like from intestinal blood. Her poop is pretty much Totally- Ferret-colored normal poop. There's no evidence of blockage, and we regularly give the fuzzies Laxatone to grease the wheels, so to speak. It's obviously uncomfortable for her, but it recedes on its own. We put a teensy bit of Preparation H on her to help things out a little, and you probably haven't lived until you've seen your spouse holding a ferret's butt up to the air conditioner. The vet we're using for her, who's quite good, says that mild prolapse isn't uncommon in adrenal ferrets as the perineal muscles sometimes weaken. I'm curious as to whether or not anyone has seen the same thing in their adrenal ferrets. Scott Driver Brother to Rorty and Sabrina 6. Winnie - spots in ears Date sent: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 10:28:37 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com Hi everyone. I was just wondering if anyone has seen what I am about to descrigbe. My Winnie, who I have written a lot about lately(insulomnia - almost 4 yrs) has developed spots in her ears. I have been away for the last month and my mother has had my three fuzzies who all seem to be doing well, even winnie, butg she has these black head like things in her ear. They don't bothern her, just me because they make her ears look dirty. Any ideas? Also tell me if this sounds logical. Before Winnie gets her pediapred (2x day)n she gets a spoonful of chiken babyfood because she loves it and will always eat it and I like to know she has food in her stomach before her meds. Anyway, I NEVER see her eat - but then again I don't sit and watch her all day just check on them a few times and during play time. Actually I never really see anyof them eat, just know that someone empties the food bowl. She looks good and is not skinny so she must be eating her TF right? She wouldn't have survived for at least the past 2 months on just two teasponns of babyfood a day, right? I think I beleive that - but sometimes reassurance makes me feel a bit better. Thanks, Amy, Winnie, Chloe and Connor 7. I found out part of my question Date sent: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 20:18:39 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com The oddest thing is that this morning, after two months of not being sure, I went in to play with the kids and caught Winnie in the act.....of EATING! She does eat - and she eats a lot. I must have watched her for at least 10 minutes and I don't know how long before that she was eating. As sure as I was that she indeed was eating before today, it makes me feel much much better that I actually saw it myself. Thanks as always for listening and your suggestions, Amy 8. Predisone for Insulinoma From:Anonymous Date sent: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:24:59 EDT >> What I would like to know is," Why is Predisone used for insulinoma? " How does it help? Thank you for any help you can give. Dianna and the Merry Band of Illegals >>>> .Prednisone is used in Insulinoma because it raises the blood sugar levels, and helps normalize blood glucose. 9. On the road again, & FFDRI update Date sent: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 09:14:23 -0700 From: "Gary Holowicki" Hi folks; Well, after a week of head cold and sore throat, I'm packing to try & get up to Colo. for the summer. If you need any Timmy's tonic, etc. it would be a good idea to email or call as it'll be a couple of weeks on the road & setting up after getting up there. The usual spot I had is under construction & having delays with the usual stuff & funding as well. Since I was down to 3 domestic ferts who are getting older, (arn't we all:)), a local breeder made a deal for some Timmy's, & I wound up with three 6 month old little ones. two female, & one male. I first got the one female, Black eyed white, & she had so much energy she woke me up when the sun came up. Her name was snowball, but then became Sunshine, for obvious reasons. I also concluded she needed a playmate or two, so then came Dawn, a cinnamon cutie and her brother Tony, a two tone brown guy. After a month or so, Tony's head & feet were growing faster than his body. At about 4 months now, he's almost 4 pounds, like a small dog:) Quite a difference from the pet store ferts. What follows here is from the director of the FFDRI, the Ferret Friends Disaster Response International. In spite of it's name, it's not a corporation with good funding. Most of ferret things are run with personal funds. With the fires & floods already this year, they're running low on supplies, and the hurricane season's not even started.. It pretty much says it all, so here it is, verbatim. Take care, have a safe summer, hugs to all -------------------------------------------- From: Delivered-To: garyh@indirect.com Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 22:58:22 EDT Subject: Ferret Friends Disaster Response NEEDS YOUR HELP To: ferret@usaor.net, garyh@indirect.com MIME-Version: 1.0 In the past 8 months Ferret Friends Disaster Response has responded to three major disasters within the continental United states, i.e., Hurricane Floyd, Hurricane Irene, and just this past month the fires in Los Alamos, NM. Our disaster supplies are totally exhausted. We come to you today on bended knee' to BEG, PLEAD and HOPE FOR YOUR HELP. The only things we have left in our disaster response kits are a few cool packs, the surgical pack, some light sticks 1 bottle of Bach's Rescue Remedy and three bottles of Timmy's Tonic. We need to prepare at least two kits which we can send out should disaster strike. Below are the minimum items we need. We are not asking for any money (however if you want to send money we have an account with a veterinarian [Westside Animal Hospital) for Disasters only and you can make your checks directly to them and we can buy prescription medicine to go in the packs). This is what we need and we need it desperately for the silent victims: children of fur, feathers, scales, shells and hooves! 4 Large Pet First Aid kits (the bigger the better) Latex Gloves Gauze sponges (a variety of small, medium & Large) Roll gauze, 3-inch width Roll bandages, such as gauze wrap that stretches and clings (these are available at pharmacies & pet stores) Adhesive tape, hypoallergenic Non-adherent sterile pads Small scissors Grooming clippers Compact thermal blankets Pediatric rectal thermometer several (may be digital) Water based sterile lubricant Three percent hydrogen peroxide Rubbing alcohol Over-the-counter topical antibiotic ointment Epsom salts Baby dose syringe or eye dropper (many) Sterile eye lubricant Sterile saline eye wash. Glucose paste Septic powder Petroleum Jelly 8 Penlights 2 Needle Nose Pliers Litter scoopers, Electrolyte rehydration crystals (we need lots of this) Children's Benedryl 2 sets nail clippers cotton swabs, ear cleaning preparation Bach's Rescue Remedy (both drops and creme) Nutrical Ferretone Water Bottles (please send only new ones) Cool Packs Miniature battery operated fans Hammocks bedding Light sticks (the kind you, that will give 8 hours of light in an emergency, you crack them and they light up) Batteries, Batteries, Batteries (all types) 2 Fire Extinguishers (small portable) AT&T Cellular phone cards (it doesn't matter how many minutes we need lots and lots so those at the disaster sites can keep us up to date as to their needs) Please send any of the above supplies to: Ferret Friends Disaster Response % Chere McCoy 8775 20th Street, Lot 614 Vero Beach, Florida 32966 If you want to send money - please make your check to WESTSIDE ANIMAL HOSPITAL - make a notation that they are for DISASTER SUPPLIES ONLY (you can send the check to the above address) I cannot stress how important it is that we have these supplies so that we can respond to disasters. The Silent Victims - the children of fur, feathers, scales, shells and hooves need us and they need us now!!! Humbly and begging Chere McCoy Director, Ferret Friends Disaster Response International ----------------------------------- Gary & the gang of fur Timmy's web site=; He's the ferret totally healed from "terminal lymphoma" without drugs or surgery. :) Timmy's Mailing List = http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/TimmyFerret Timmy's Forum = http://forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=TimmyFerret Another emil for me is , in case the indrirect.com has trouble. ----------------------- End of FAIML #439 -------------------------