From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 2:32 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #444; July 10, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #444; July 10, 2000 There are ten messages in today's list: Update on Cassie swelling prostate Re: - urgent post Re: FAIML #443; July 9, 2000 - urgent post Re: FAIML #443; July 9, 2000 - urgent post Brewers Yeast brewers yeast Brewer's yeast Brewers Yeast for insulinoma ferrets Noni FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Update on Cassie Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:33:56 -0600 (CST) From: "John Rosloot" I posted last week about a stroke like episode Cassie had. Here's an update. She's doing much better now. Her strength and appetite imroved all last week. She is still a little wobbly when standing for a long time, and is still pulling to the left, but she's eating like a horse and is running all over the house, and no longer tiring easily. She's missing the litter pan most of the time, but not all the time any more. Considering the shape she was in a week ago her progress has been great. Her blood glucose was very low at first and she wasn't eating on her own, but these have both improved. She lost almost 1/2 a pound but is starting to gain that back. She's on prednisone, plus I'm feeding her a duck soup recipe in addition to what she eats on her own. Whether or not she had a stroke isn't known; this still may have been a case of an intestinal bug and loss of appetite causing her BG to crash. Anyway, we figure insulinoma is her main problem, and we're working to build her strength and weight back up and keep her blood glucose stable until she's well enough for surgery. Hopefully she will benefit as much as Sammy. He was on daily prednisone and special feedings for about a year for his insulinoma, and by April his BG was still dropping to 20-30, but since surgery his BG is 100 with no meds or special diet. I've been through many surgeries with my vet, who has over 20 years experience with ferrets, and haven't had any 'bad' surgeries, so I'm hopeful. Wish us luck. Cassie goes for a recheck on Thursday, at which time we'll discuss how soon we should do the surgery. -- John Rosloot, Caregiver to Cassidy and Sammy With loving memories of my dear departed Buddy Technical analyst, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Regina Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~john/ferrets john@cs.uregina.ca swelling prostate Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:46:55 -0400 From: "Andrea J Miralia" My ferret Benny (7 1/2) is having some success with ARMIDEX, Saw Palmetto, and Lupron (4 month doses.) I suspect it's the Arimidex that's working the best... Basically, Benny's prostate got SO big that it blocked his urethra completely last week and he almost died... Something started working, though, luckily... and he began to pee on his own, so we didn't have to do emergency risky surgery (cystostomy - cutting a hole in his bladder wall and having a temporary tube leading outside his body.) I'm keeping him on the Lupron and the Armidex until he leaves this life. I don't want to lose him to a ruptured bladder... that would be too painful for him. Saw Palmetto is an herb that you can find in health food stores... Or you can try any Prostate Health capsules. I burst them open and put them in some chicken gravy. It's nasty smelling stuff, so you have to mix it in something that will cover most of the smell/ taste. Andréa -- miralia@juno.com -- http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Film/1630/index.html ICQ 74505608 --- AOL, ICQ & MSN messenger: moonferret Web cam: http://webcamnow.com/moonferret SCA -- Chiara Franco a.k.a. Ceara Fhionn inghean Chinneidigh -- Pogue ma thon!-- Re: - urgent post Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:36:55 +0000 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Christy, > > I have a 5 year old female ferret who has become very thin and wont eat her > regular food. Her stools are small and black tarry like and have not seen her > urinate.I am taking to vet on monday, but any ideas on whats wrong. My vet is > not very ferret smart and the area I live in doest have a good ferret vet. I > am giving her pedilyte, chicken baby food and nutrical. But she is not picking > up and seems very tired, just flattens out when outside of her cage. thanks > christy Black, tarry stools indicate bleeding in the gastrointestinal tract. This is most commonly related to stomach ulcers in ferrets, but can also be caused by foreign bodies or cancer. A full work-up is in order. I hope this helps, -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com Re: FAIML #443; July 9, 2000 - urgent post Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:34:25 EDT From: WGHOL@aol.com In a message dated 7/9/00 4:00:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << I have a 5 year old female ferret who has become very thin and wont eat her regular food. Her stools are small and black tarry like and have not seen her urinate.I am taking to vet on monday, but any ideas on whats wrong. My vet is not very ferret smart and the area I live in doest have a good ferret vet. I am giving her pedilyte, chicken baby food and nutrical. But she is not picking up and seems very tired, just flattens out when outside of her cage. thanks christy >> I strongly suspect a blockage, and you need to get her to a vet a.s.a.p. You can soften and mash up her regular kibble with water, and add nutrical. Warm it in the micro wave for about 9 seconds, sometimes warm food will stimulate feeding. If she has a blockage, she will feel sick and not want to eat, but you must get fluid into her to prevent dehydration, (if her urine is limited, this may already have happened) and if she will not take the fluids, you'll have to force feed her or get to an emergency clinic for fluid injections; (which is the best way to go right now) You can try getting some pepto bismol into her about 10 minutes before feeding, although they really hate it, but if you can get some into her, it may settle her stomach. If she will take nothing but the baby food and nutrical, keep that up and feed her every three hours as much as she will take. Sometimes they will drink out of a shower or bathtub, if you place a container in there with some running water in it...any way you can get her to get fluid is good. If you need to force feed her, dissolve the nutrical into water, and use a syringe or eye dropper and hold her firmly, (not tightly), and put a few drops into the side of her mouth, not directly into the mouth she may swallow the wrong way, and the fluid will get into her lungs. Keep this up and be persistant, it's very important. Do it slowly and let her swallow the liquid down, she may take it easier with the nutrical because it is sweet. Add the pedialyte if she likes that. I can't stress how important the fluid is right now, they dehydrate and die very quickly! Keep up the nutrical on its own too, it will help maintain her until you get to the vet. Have you checked here for a Vet close by to you: http://www.ferr etcentral.org/for-others/db-vets.html W Re: FAIML #443; July 9, 2000 - urgent post Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:12:10 EDT From: MOMINFLITE2@aol.com HAVE A 7 YRS LITTLE GIRL WHO HAS INSOLOMA (SPELLED RIGHT?). SHE IS AN EXTREMELY PICKY EATER. I HAD TO FORCE FEED FROM A SMALL SYRINGE CANNED CONDENSED MILK. AT FIRST SHE TOOK VERY LITTLE, BUT KEPT AT IT EVERY 2 HOURS, SHE FINALLY DECIDED IT WAS OK. AFTER A COUPLE OF DAYS SHE SLOWLY STARTED EATING AGAIN. THIS HELPED UNTIL I COULD GET HER TO MY VET. ALSO HAVE USED A TOUCH OF KAYO SYRUP DILUTED WITH WATER FOR A THINNER CONSISTENCY GIVEN BY SYRINGE FOR ANOTHER FERRET WITH ADRENAL PROBLEMS WHEN HIS SUGAR DROPPED. Brewers Yeast Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:31:25 -0400 From: "Dave and Pam Taynor" Hi All, "> Brewer's yeast (chromium) may benefit animals with diabetes, by lowering the > blood sugar levels after eating. That is exactly what you do not want for an > insulinomic ferret. We give them high protein food supplements (duck soup, > whatever) , and eventually pred, to raise the blood sugar level. Adding brewer's > yeast is counter-productive to that effort. "From: "Glenn Johnson" Back when my first ferret had insulinoma, I asked my vet about some alternative therapies, and if they would hurt or help. One of those things was Brewers Yeast. He told me that it might help, but shouldn't hurt. And that I should stick with just brewers yeast, since actual chromium tablets might be too strong and cause other problems. I know many of you do use the tablets, but you have more experience at this than I do. :-) This is a very ferret knowledgable vet, so I can't believe that he would be wrong on this. The chromium is supposed to regulate, not lower the blood sugar level. If you do have information that it does actually lower the levels, please give me more info so I can pass it along to my vet. My second ferret with insulinoma now is doing very good on Bob Church's Chicken Gravy, some extras (incuding brewers yeast), and a small dose of PediaPred (mostly as appetite stimulant and not to help regulate the blood sugar level yet). I don't try to raise her blood sugar levels, just maintain them. She is still very active and playful and has kept her position of Queen ferret. :-) Pam Taynor Silver Belle and Josie Ferrets brewers yeast Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 19:23:10 -0400 From: "Public Relations" HI Glenn, With all due respect your message is correct as it reads. However there is also the belief that the chromium -- helps maintain a normal functioning pancreas. Thus, if it were to correct the pancreatic function, there would be less insulin released from islet cell tumors. I cannot tell or would I begin to tell others what to do, however we have nursed NUMBERS of insulinomic ferrets on nutritional support with chromium, brewers yeast natural suppliments. In the 2-3 years which they have been receiving this support program each ferret has been receiving it several times a day in addition to normal kibble. We are happy to report we have not lost a single one to and advanced low blood sugar condition. These are only our experiences however. Also numbers of veterinarians have read our soup ingredient listings and in the end concluded there was nothing harmful in it -- but perhaps it would be helpful. We have helped numbers of ferrets by passing this along and have not heard it caused negative results. Just another side of the chromium debate. PS- the fasting blood glucose tests all are better with the ferrets on the chromium soup that prior to taking it! Alicia at Ferret Wise you wrote: >Brewer's yeast >Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 08:05:22 -0700 >From: "Glenn Johnson" > >Ferret Friends, > >Brewer's yeast (chromium) may benefit animals with diabetes, by lowering the >blood sugar levels after eating. That is exactly what you do not want for an >insulinomic ferret. We give them high protein food supplements (duck soup, >whatever) , and eventually pred, to raise the blood sugar level. Adding >brewer's yeast is counter-productive to that effort. > >Remember that diabetes causes high blood sugar levels that need to be >lowered. >The exact opposite of what the insulinomic ferret needs. > >Glenn and Chuki Brewer's yeast Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:25:24 -0400 From: ela.heyn@db.com My understanding of brewer's yeast, actually, is that it helps to equalize blood sugar levels (stabilize them). In other words, low blood sugar would be brought up, and high blood sugar would be brought down (by the brewer's yeast). - Ela Ela Heyn Harborside Mail Stop 3024 201-860-3336 ela.heyn@db.com Brewers Yeast for insulinoma ferrets Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:28:14 -0500 From: "DookDook" Quoting from the FAQS at Ferret Central http://ferretcentral.org/faq/med/insulin.html#brown "Insulinoma (Dr. Brown) Written by Dr. Susan Brown, DVM: Insulinoma [is] a cancer of the pancreatic beta (insulin producing) cells. It is extremely common in ferrets of her age and the signs are right on. The tumors are very tiny, but produce an excessive amount of insulin which has the effect of driving the blood sugar (glucose) into the bodies cells at too rapid of a rate. ...It is also helpful to keep food always available and to add a supplement of Brewers Yeast to the diet. You can buy brewers yeast and garlic tablets for pets at health food stores or from you vet if they carry it. Or you can just buy plain Brewer's Yeast in a powder or tablet. Use 1/8 tsp of the powder twice a day, or 1/4 of a human tablet or 1/2 of a pet tablet twice daily. Brewers yeast contains chromium which is the glucose tolerance factor which helps to regulate insulin and glucose levels. These dietary suggestions will not CURE the pet, nor stop the cancer from growing, but they may alleviate some of the signs and prolong the amount of time the pet is off other medication. " Margie(grieving) + 16 Missing Sammy and her heart. Sammy heaven is yours enjoy it. Noni Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:09:02 -0600 From: "Amanda Christmas" Curious to know if anyone has triied Tahitian Noni juice on thier ferrets and if so what has been the results. Thanks, Amanda ----------------------- End of FAIML #444 -------------------------