From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 2:56 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #447; July 17, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #447; July 17, 2000 There are eight messages in today's list: Re: FAIML #446; July 15, 2000: Urgent Post (Silver Update) Reply: FAIML #446; July 15, 2000: Urgent Post Reply: FAIML #446; July 15, 2000: Urgent Post ferret near death Thea is at the Bridge...... bare spots Reply: Ferrets with Bare Spots Devil's Club Supreme FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Re: FAIML #446; July 15, 2000: Urgent Post (Silver Update) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 09:15:29 -0700 From: contact@gan.ca Thanks for writing this. We have had Silver x-rayed, and a barium series to see if food was trapped anywhere. We tested his kidneys and liver for function (they were fine), and tried 8 different foods in case it was a food allergy. In addition, he had surgery for insulinoma two weeks ago, and the vet did not see any kind of blockage of additional tumors in the intestinal system. She says that a generalized cancer can involve tiny tumors that are too small for the eye to detect, and that this can cause these symptoms. Which sounds like an easy way to say "I don't know". So many experienced, kind people have taken the time to write me back. One of them sent me an article on Megaesophagus, which describes Silver's symptoms exactly. He also sent a course of action if this were the case, and we are following this (antibiotics in case of ulcer, carafate, zantac, and duck soup hand fed in tiny quantities). We are praying for a miracle, because although he is literally a skeleton at this time, he has bright eyes, and tries to walk around. He is fighting this very, very hard, and it is obvious that he is not ready to give up. I hope that this gives him a chance. I can't say how grateful I am for all of the generous concern and advice from this group. I have four geriatric ferrets, all rescues, and they are all sick in one way or another. Sometimes you can feel so alone and frustrated. I know that our vet wants to help, but like most of them, does not seem to know much or be interested in doing research. The vet that we went to for a second opinion had never even heard of a ferret having an ulcer! Your kindness has really helped to get me through this. Thanks so much, Rebecca Reply: FAIML #446; July 15, 2000: Urgent Post Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 02:26:21 EDT From: WhyNotFert@aol.com In a message dated 7/15/00 11:40:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: > From: contact@gan.ca > > Hi, > > I have a ferret who is on the verge of death. He has been vomiting non > stop every time he eats for about two weeks. My ferret specialist vet > has given up and thinks he will die this weekend. She says that he > probably has a general cancer that is shutting his organs down (he just > had a successful surgery for insulinoma and they did not find other > tumors at that time). > > I have seen some articles about gastric ulcers on the internet, and in the > hope > that this is what he has, I am feeding him pepto-bismal in the dosage > recommended. It seems to be having little effect though and he is eating > almost > nothing and directly vomiting up what he does consume. He has lost massive > amounts of weight and is desperately hungry - pawing at his mouth non-stop > and really trying to get food down. > > I don't know how long he can keep going like this. The vet tested him for > kidney > and liver failure and did an x ray for blockages -all of which showed > nothing. > > Has anyone had any experiences with this kind of situation? > > Rebecca Aldworth Closest I can come is a ferret with minute gastric lesions as a result of post-ECE bloat, but this might at least give you an idea what to look for. "KR" was very hungry - but every time he ate he wound up gagging, occasionally vomiting, and pawing his mouth bloody from the nausea. *Nothing* showed up on exam, but the symptoms were similar to ulcers and he'd recently had a stressful illness. He could keep down a small amount of easily digested food (baby food or Bob C's Gravy) but more than a teaspoon's worth would have him gagging again. Our hypothesis was that any amount of food sufficient to stretch the stomach would "break" the lesions open - very painful, and kept them from healing. We used Amoxy to prevent secondary infection, and I gave him Carafate every time I fed him. We stuck with the Gravy, since it was easy to digest. He was offered only 5-8mls of food at a time, and I'd wait at least 5 minutes before letting him have any more even if he begged. It would take at least an hour to get a reasonable meal into him, but as long as I kept it slow he could keep it down. It took several weeks of feeding him this way, and he did lose some weight - but it kept the nausea down and allowed his stomach to heal. As time went on, I'd gradually increase the amount I let him have at once, and if he started gagging we backed off again. You can imagine my delight the day he managed to eat a good 20mls of gravy in less than 10 minutes and keep it down with no problems! He's now chowing down on his kibble with the best of them, and his weight is back up to where it should be. I sure hope this helps - I know how frustrating this can be. Carla Smith WhyNot? Ferrets - Rescue/Assistance El Paso, Texas Reply: FAIML #446; July 15, 2000: Urgent Post Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 02:13:19 EDT From: SBrown9530@aol.com In a message dated 7/16/00 12:39:01 AM Central Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << I have a ferret who is on the verge of death >> Has he had an x-ray to determine if he has a blockage? Please go to a ferret knowledgeable vet. For a vet to say he has a "general cancer" in my opinion, leaves something to be desired. What is a "general cancer"? Have you given him carafate, rather than pepto? Much easier on the stomach. Please take your baby to a ferret knowledgeable vet and let us know how he's doing. Two weeks of vomiting every thing he eats is much too long to let this continue. That poor baby must be in such pain. Sandi ferret near death Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 10:19:51 -0400 From: "Moxie" I believe that not all blockages show up in an x-ray. I don't know why the vet suspects cancer if surgery was recently performed and no tumors showed up. If he were my ferret I would probably opt for exploratory looking for a blockage. You didn't mention the age of the ferret or if he has been eliminating. At this point, if he is most likely at the end, the risk of surgery is outweighed by the lack of time to find the cause. If it is ulcers, Troy Lynn and others on this list can recommend treatment for those. Has the vet tried treating for ulcers? Best of luck, Moxie and Chance Thea is at the Bridge...... Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 19:02:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ron DeBaecke" Hi all, you may remember me posting a few weeks ago about Thea's inoperable right adrenal.. then i posted about the severe abdomen bruising a month after surgery... well, it started to clear up and i was so happy.. then she started to go down hill quickly... started getting very weak, couldnt eat kibble food but would gobble up the duck soup.. but it wasnt enough, it was her time... Sunday, july 2nd, i woke up early to check on her, and she was miserable and weak.. i couldnt stand to see her suffer any longer.. she couldnt make it back to her bed from the litter pan.. she would have to stop and rest every 12 inches.. so, i made the decision i thought i could never do.. i had to take her in to an emergency vet appointment to put her down... i held her in my arms and told her it was okay to go.. how much we loved her, and how much we tried.. i told her there would be no more surgerys and no more monthly shots where she was going.. i told her that someday we will meet again up there.. then she just quietly, calmly, went to sleep.. it was one of the sadest days of our lives.. she was my closet ferret, mainly because of all we have been through with her.. 1 neuter surgery, 3 adrenal surgeries, monthly lupron injections, a near death vaccination reaction, multiply vets, long travels for lupron shots, months of hand feeding around the clock for ECE.. and tons of money... it bonds you very closely... i miss her terribly, thats why it has taken 2 weeks later to write this.. but now, i can write(type?) with fairly clear eyes... Everyone, please send your prayers to Thea at the bridge, i know she made a quick journey there.. She was a one of a kind ferret.. all ferrets are special, but this one stands out.. despite all she had been through, she was the happiest, friendly-ist, creature alive.. Its a shame that all human people arent as happy and compassionate as her.. there would be no suffering, no wars, no crime...... Thank you to everyone that has written to me in these recent weeks.. it was all appreciated and helpful, even if i didnt get to personally respond to you... And to you Lynn, your a Saint... I dont know if you know what a great service you are providing with this list. you could never imagine how many people you help.. Its so reassuring to have somewhere to turn in tough times.. ferret knowledge is soooo hard for some people to find.. and its all right here... I think we're at opposite ends of the country, but if i ever meet you, look out! your due for the biggest hug imaginable... Thank you for all the time you invest in this list just to help out strangers like me... And to the vets and other ferret knowledgable people on this list that take their valuable time to answer our questions.. You guys and gals are wonderful people..THANK YOU!!!! Sorry for rambling on so long.. it just feels good to let it out.... Dont worry, i still have 2 fur kids left, so i'll be around.. reading and learning.... Ron ps. go hug not only your little fur kids, but every living thing in the house.. the kids, the dog, the husband, the wife.. life is too short and you never know when it can end... bare spots Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 07:21:07 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" >My 2 ferrets that have the holes with bare spots. I went to the vet and >found out that were fighting. Do YOU see them fighting? It seems somewhat weird to have a vet tell you they're fighting like it's something you haven't see. If you haven't seen them fighting, I would question the diagnosis. Ferrets that have lived togther for 4 years don't usually start fighting so badly that they get hair ripped out. If you DO see them fighting, and it's something they have not done before, this could be the beginning signs of adrenal disease in one or both of them. Adrenal disease causes an excess of hormones that can, among other things, include aggressiveness and hair loss. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * South Florida Ferret Help Line, 305-752-7040 * * Website: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc Reply: Ferrets with Bare Spots Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:06:52 -0400 From: "Melissa" >Bare spots >Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:41:41 -0400 (EDT) >From: "abc fgh" > >My 2 ferrets that have the holes with bare spots. I went to the vet and >found out that were fighting. They both bit each other and made the >bare spots. They have been together for 4 years now. I don't have the >space to separate them. Any suggestions on how to have them quit >fighting. Sudden agression in ferret often points to an illness. Either adrenal or possibly something causing pain like an obstruction. I'd have a ferret knowledgable vet take a closer look at your ferrets. -Melissa __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ Devil's Club Supreme Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 02:19:27 EDT From: GSFERRETSOCIETY@aol.com I wanted to share this information with this list what I just read in the LOS FERRET DIGEST. Steve and Diane Bodofsky who run the Last Chance Ferret Rescue have been treating ferrets with an herbal extract called Devil's Club Supreme. They been able to document nearly two dozen ferrets with insulinoma symptoms that have been able to lead a normal, happy life. In some cases two and three years after being diagnosed with insulinoma. They also said that in two of the ferret who were on Devils Club, were necropsies. In both cases there was no sign of any damage to the pancreas. Insulinoma is a killer, I've had a rescue who had a grand mall seizer when I wasn't home, when I came home he had blood coming out of his nose,sscreaming tossing his little body side to side in his cage. It took another minute to get him out of his cage without me getting bite. I held this little guy so close to me, crying telling this little one "its OK I'm right here for you and begging God to please take him. But the little one held on to we got to the vet. Mind you, the owner had just surrendered him to me just 5 hours earlier. With insulinomas you never know when it will happen and if this Devil's Club can help I'm all for it. As a matter of fact two of our surrender have been taking it now for 5 days. We give them 5 drops every 12 hours in their duck soup. We should have their blood sugar balances out within the first week or so. If anyone would like more info about this article, they have a phone number where you can call them to order Devils Club Supreme or if you have a personal question about your ferret I'd be glad to give it too you. Margaret ----------------------- End of FAIML #447 -------------------------