From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 2:31 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #449; July 27, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #449; July 27, 2000 There are six messages in today's list: compounding meds Zackari Cassie has passed away More on Chromium introduce myself finding Noni juice FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. compounding meds Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 12:28:24 -0400 From: "Celia C." Hi, Has anyone had success with a sugar free or mostly sugar free 'recipe' for compounding prednisone? Our pharmacy has been compounding Cokie's meds for a while now, and now that I've found out 1. they are loaded with sugar and 2. she has insulinoma, I'm stuck. Prednisone is nasty and needs something sweet to cover it, and it's much easier to give her a thicker formula than a watery one. The pharmacy now thinks I'm nuts and impossible to please. Help! I may just ask for prednisone pills, and try to crush them up in something (what?!). Otherwise I'm giving her a big dose of sugar along with her prednisone twice a day!! Her glucose was 54 last week. (up from 41). Thanks!! Celia Zackari Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 08:16:39 -0400 From: "keclark" It's been a while since I've posted any update on my Zackari (6.8 years old) double adrenal cancer surgeries. (3/97 & 12/99) Dr. Ross Prezant in Stuart, FL did his surgery both times. If anyone needs a great ferret doc in that area. We have allot of confidence in him. Zackari is doing really well for all he has been going through. He has been fat and sassy with a beautiful winter coat, even in Florida. He is on Melatonin liquid .04 ml twice a day for estragon blocker. Theophylline 0.75 ML twice a day for his breathing. Lasix every third day .04 ML for any fluid that builds up around his heart and lungs. Dr Green wanted to start him on Enalapril 0.36 ML every 48 hours but Zack didn't feel very well on it, so I stopped it for now. He had stopped eating very much at all for about two weeks. He didn't have a fever. Some times he doesn't like a new bag of food. Iams kitten is what he has always liked. But he likes it with lots of the sauce on it. Ha! Ha! I got a different bag and he is eating like a little pig again. Anyway, he is shedding right now. But new hair coming in, so he isn't going bald. He hasn't been able to see for about a year. But he does very well following our trail and sniffing he's way along. I thought you would like some good news for once. My sister sells Tahitian Noni and has wanted me to start Zackari on it and also take it myself. It has helped her recover from breast cancer. Has anyone got a web site to go to and find out how ferrets have done on Noni? I get so sad reading about the sick babies. I think we have a great support system on our mailing list and I really needed everyone's help last December and they were there for me. So thank you to you all out there. My thoughts and prayers are with all and their lose. Kathy & Zackari Cassie has passed away Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:31:42 -0600 (CST) From: "John Rosloot" I posted early this month about a stroke like episode my little Cassie-girl had had. We think maybe she had a stomach bug which stopped her from eating, and for some time we've known she's had insulinoma, though she never showed serious signs so we were still watching and waiting. She also had some thinning of hair on her tail, so we suspected adrenal disease, though again the signs weren't very adavanced so we were waiting. We think that maybe when the stomach bug stopped her from eating her blood sugar crashed. After that she had trouble walking and tended to pull to the left, and I was told at that point that prolonged low blood sugar can cause neurological damage. After several days she started to improve. Her strength and coordination were getting better, and we were trying to build her weight back up so that we could operate once she was strong enough (she had lost almost 1/2 a pound). I took Cassie to emergency Sunday evening because she had been breathing rapidly all day, tended to start when touched, and at 8pm she was having a hypoglycemic attack. They stabilized her blood sugar and kept her overnight, and brought her to her regular vet Monday morning. She also had blood in her poop in the morning. My vet wanted to operate right away to address her insulinoma, since continued attacks would only make her weaker for surgery. He also wanted to see if her bowels needed surgical attention, plus address her adrenal disease. The vet removed 1/2 her pancreas, most of her right adrenal gland which was the largest he'd ever seen and which had attached to the vena cava and liver (it's a testament to his skill that he was able to remove so much), and removed a 6 inch section of her bowel that had turned black. Such extensive surgery must have been too much for her in her weakened state. She passed away early this morning. I've been through many ferrets surgeries and this is the first one that didn't work out. I wish we had operated sooner. A month ago she was still strong and healthy. Three months ago we already suspected insulinoma and adrenal, but she never showed any marked signs. Sammy was having multiple attacks a week when he got his insulinoma surgery in April, and now he's in the pink. I don't know what happened to Cassie's bowel, or if earlier surgery would have caught or prevented that or if she'd have gone anyway. Oh well, should haves aren't going to change anything now. I don't know what to do now. My first ferret passed away 5 years ago, and the autopsy lab cremated him as policy. I still have the ashes in a cup, never having figured out what to do with them. I'm thinking I'll bury Cassie in the back yard, but I'm not sure. What happens in 8 or 10 years when I sell my house? If anyone has advice on how to deal with a loved one's remains, I will welcome them. For now, I can't believe my little girl is gone. She would have been 8 next month, which is a fair stretch I guess, but up till now she had never had a serious illness. I hoped she would be around for years to come. As with my first, I feel we should have been able to prevent this. I guess it never gets any easier. Please say a prayer for my precious little angel. -- John Rosloot, Caregiver to only Sammy now With loving memories of my dear departed Buddy, and my precious little Cassie-angel More on Chromium Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 02:47:48 EDT From: AFERRETVET@cs.com It sounds like there is still some confusion about chromium, how it works, and what "helps to regulate blood glucose levels " actually means. Chromium is an essential trace element. Chromium supplementation is often recommended for people and pets (dogs and cats) with diabetes. Diabetics are basically the opposite of insulinoma ferrets because diabetics have a high blood glucose (sugar) level. Chromium helps to lower their high blood glucose levels. This is where the phrase "helps to regulate blood glucose levels" comes from. Chromium also has insulin like action that helps to increase muscle mass and decrease body fat and weight. This is also a good thing for diabetics, and the reason chromium is often used as a weight loss agent. On the other hand, the goal of medical therapy for an insulinoma ferret is to raise the blood glucose level. Clearly it does not make sense to give chromium that will lower an already low blood glucose level, nor does it make sense to give chromium that has insulin like properties when there is already too much insulin being produced by the insulinoma. Remember medical therapy is a combination of 3 things: DIET, PEDIAPRED, and PROGLYCEM. The DIET needs to be a high quality, high meat-based ferret food or kitten food. Cooked meats (beef, chicken, turkey, fish), cooked eggs, Gerber's chicken baby food, Hill's A/D and/or Eukanuba's feline maximum calorie can all be used as supplements, treats, and when the ferret is anorectic. A/D, baby food, and maximum calorie can be syringed fed when needed. The extra protein provides both amino acids and a substrate for glucose production by the liver (gluconeogenesis). Perhaps the ideal diet would have (on a dry matter basis) 55- 60% protein, 20-30% fat, and <10% carbo- hydrates. This is close to what "Bob's chicken gravy" has. However I totally disagree with adding brewer's yeast or chromium to it! PEDIAPRED helps to raise blood glucose levels, inhibits utilization of glucose, and has some antiinsulin activity. This is why pediapred is the first medicine used to treat insulinoma ferrets. PROGLYCEM helps to raise blood glucose levels by lowering the amount of insulin secreted by the pancreas. Due to its high cost and bad taste, it is usually added when pediapred is no longer able to control the blood glucose levels. Remember chromium does not raise blood glucose levels. It lowers the blood glucose levels, so I would not give it to an insulinoma ferret. Jerry Murray, DVM introduce myself Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 15:43:11 -0400 From: "Sarah Manningsmith" Hi my name is Sarah. My husband and I have two wonderful fuzzies. Action Jackson Runs-With-Scissors is a one year old theat we got shortly after losing my first ferret to lymphosarcoma (sorry, I can't spell). Konrad is seven years old (we initially got him for my first ferret, Freddy). About three months ago, Konrad was diagnosed with adrenal cancer. I suspected it for a while, but he got over ECE about nine months ago and hasn't had the strength. Since I thought surgery was the only option for Konrad, I put off the vet visit deciding that it would be selfish of me to put Konrad through a surgery when he's so old and not so healthy (he is however VERY happy). Anyway, we found out about the Lupron therepy and started him on it. He's been doing pretty good; he's more active and alert (like he was a year or two ago), but his hair is still VERY thin. Two weeks ago, during a move, he had an insulinoma attack. He has shown some early symptoms: infrequent and slight tremors that last less than 20 seconds. Sorry about the length, Sarah, David, Konrad and Jackson finding Noni juice Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:03:49 -0400 From: "Ethan & Michele" Hi, where did you find Noni Juice for $24? Everywhere I have checked it is $40. I would like to start my ferret on it. Thanks, Michele (and Odin) ----------------------- End of FAIML #449 -------------------------