From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 3:55 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@sttl.uswest Subject: FAIML #450; August 1, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #450; August 1, 2000 There are ten messages in today's list. Introduction Odie and the boys Pediapred question 18 month ferret has chronic diahrea-vomiting heart problems compounding meds-prednisone Re: FAIML #449; July 27, 2000 (compounding) Re: FAIML #449; July 27, 2000 (compounding) noni juice noni juice on line $20 post anonymous FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is as are pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:38:13 -0400 From: "Mark Hallman" Introduction Hi! My name is Mark, and I joined this list because my best friend, Loki (4-yr. male sable), has adrenal-associated endocrinopathy. He was diagnosed with it last Tuesday. His vet wanted me to take him to Philadelphia to get him an ultrasound and consult with a surgeon. However, some of the things she said to me did not correlate with what I have read from Dr. Bruce William's posting on the internet. Also, I am in the process of applying to medical school while I am still paying off my student loans from my undergraduate education; therefore, I do not have the money to spend on the ultrasound and the Philly surgeon. The ultrasound would cost $189, and a mere consult with the surgeon would cost $75. Considering all of this, I went back to the pet store, and I spoke with the woman who sold Loki to me. She recommended a vet that is close by, and they apparently treat ferrets often, and they are familiar with adrenal disease. She also agreed that the vet that I had been taking Loki to was a bit excessive in her treatments. So, tonight (7/28) is Loki's visit with the new vet. Wish us luck. ========================================== Mark A. Hallman Researcher in Renal Toxicology Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences University of the Sciences in Philadelphia 600 South 43rd Street Box 118 Philadelphia, PA 19104-4495 E-mail: m.hallma@usip.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:43:28 -0700 From: "Lynn McIntosh" Odie and the boys About two weeks ago Odie, my 9 11/12 year old, insulinomic girl, started "blowing up" . At first I figured she was finally getting "pred-belly", then I started fearing the worst that she was starting to have fluid build up related to congestive heart failure. So its off to the vet we go. The vet was also surprized to see how big her belly was getting. Well as she was examining her Odie started to pee. Well the vet continued to express her bladder and she peed, and peed and peed and by the time she finished I had a nice sleek ferret again. It appears that while she is peeing on her own, she is not emptying her bladder all the way. So now I am helping her 4 or 5 times a day and she seems to be doing well. But whats causing it and is there anything we can do for it? She does not have a bladder infection. Also BJ is slowly growing back his fur, the surgery seem to trip something even though nothing was found. He has had a chronic problem with one of his ears and we finally did a culture on it and it turns out he had an E. coli infection. Two weeks of antibiotic ear drops, it looked good for 1 day and now its coming back with a vengence. I think we are going to have to change antibiotics and try again. Jack is doing well too and has become the most devoted pet I have ever had. He follows me everywhere and whenever I stop moving he lays on my feet. He will runoff and play for a while but always checks to make sure mom is still close by. Wishing everyone and their fur kids the best, Amy and her fur snakes Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:40:19 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com Pediapred question A few months ago I posted about my Winnie who had been diagnosed with insulomnia. At the time her BG was 42. She was put on ,75cc of pediapred. Now - the first part of my question is that I know that ferrets should not be fasted for very long - well - the time she got her BG when she was diagnosed, the vet was running late and then he examined all three of them and then he finally did the BG - probably about 7 hours or so of not eating - I know that was low, but it was also too long for her to fast. Okay - so here we are - force feeding her some food to get her BG up on the car ride home. Well for the few weeks following, she wasn't doing well - seh was just not herself. Never wanted to play, but would always be willing to come out of her cage to just lay on her favorite mat on the floor. I then took her to another specialist, because it took the first one three days to call me back and I know for a fact that he was in the office those three days. This other specialist thought she looked good for an insolomnia ferret - and he didn't think that the medicine (pediapred) was teh cause of the lethargy. I thought this because she was never like this until they put her on the medicine. Up to the day before the intial diagnoses, she was normal as any other ferret (we were monitoring her BG monthly up to that point and was never below 72 ). So he did tell me that he never experienced this in ferrets before, but he has had some dogs become lethargic on prednisone (I think - it was whatever the main ingred. of the pediapred is that he was talking about). he told me that if I really felt that that was the probelm then I can try playing around with the medicine, but I must be around and have her close to me and monitor her very carefully. A couple of times, I was late giving her her medicine and I would notice that she was mush more active - she is always awake -but never war dances or anything. So, I decided to try to lower her dose - for the last 10 days I have been giving her .5cc two times a day. I have seen the war dance at least twice!!!! I also think that she is more withit - just look like someone is in there if you know what I mean. On the higer dose - she is just a robot with no mind - now she seems to be getting to be her old self again. Could the medicine be diong this or is it just a coincidence? Does any one have any thoughts on this. I am hoping to get another BG done soon. I almot want to go to .4 2x, but I am afraid to keep lowering even though I think she is doing better. Any thoughts would be really very greatly appreciated. I am really sorry this is so long, but I thought you needed the whole background to understand why I am so unsure that her insolomnia is really as bad as the original vet thinks. Thank you sooo much for all of your help - again - sorry so long. -Amy Date: 30 Jul 00 12:19:59 -0500 From: felty@t-one.net 18 month ferret has chronic diahrea-vomiting Hello GANG, I have a young albino ferret, that has reacurring diahrea and vomiting. Seems good for a day then, back to diahrea. I have used peto bismol and now the vet has sugessted predisone. Any help or ideas Thanks christy Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:38:59 -0700 From: "Debbie Magerr" heart problems Hi everyone! I haven't posted in a long time, but I read faithfully! My ferret Sid (approx. 5-6yrs) has just been diagnosed with an enlarged heart. His spleen is very large and he has lots of fluid in his abdomen. He just started Lasix. Supposedly this will lessen all the fluids, therefore making it easire for the heart. I havent dealt with this problem before so I welcome any suggestions on how to treat him, ie.diet/supplements etc. I feed him totally ferret. As far as trying to get him to take pills, crushing them and adding ferretone works great! Also, you can mix it with a little chicken baby food/ferretone. Debbie & Sid Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:52:51 -0500 From: "pathfinder" compounding meds-prednisone Celia, my son, Kevin, has successfully used ferretone when compounding a prednisone solution. Kevin has two ferrets (a male 5 years old and a female 7 years old) who have insulinoma and have been on this regimen over a year. Both ferrets remain completely stable using this solution. Boonie, the male, had surgery a year ago in June; Rikki, the female has not had surgery but displays the signs, symptoms, low blood sugar levels and rear end weakness of insulimona. Kevin feeds all eight of his rescued ferrets Totally Ferret brand ferret food (senior and regular, depending on age), an occasional cheerio, and an infrequent bite of fruit. This solution has no sugar and was "concocted" by our FVET and local pharmacist. To 60 cc ferretone add 15 mg. (three 5 mg. tablets) finely pulverized prednisone. Store in a brown medicine bottle. Before administering 1/3 teaspoon (3/4 of a 1/2 teaspoon measuring spoon) twice a day (every 12 hours) shake solution vigorously 5-6 seconds to assure prednisone is adequately in suspension (can see very tiny bubbles in bottle). Administer immediately. To say Kevin's ferrets Boonie and Rikki take this mixture willingly is an understatement. These semi free-ranging house ferrets come into the kitchen and stand, looking up at the shelf where "The Bottle" is kept, when it is time for their medicine. The above amount provides a thirty day supply for two ferrets. Good luck and let us know how it works for you if you, your pharmacist and vet decide to give it a try. Ginger Lewis pathfinder1@earthlink.net Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:06:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joyce Snyder" Re: FAIML #449; July 27, 2000 (compounding) Hi...Our little Trouble had insulonima...we are located in Florida and are very lucky..we have a componding pharmacy in Gainesville which is good..but I am in Jax and very fortunate to have a compounding pharmacy here in town with a VET pharmacist that can compound...most people use Linetone(cat linetone) or feretone to compound their pred..it doesn't have alot of sugar and Dr. Kemmerer my vet in Gainesville is one of the most ferret knowledgeable vets in the country...If you haven't tried that give ita go...Good luck and let me know if I can be of any help.. sorry to hear that you don't have a pharmacist that is more helpful!!!!! Have you tried to find someone else?? For the fuzzies Joyce Snyder Hope that your little fuzzie does well and will be saying prayers for Cokie Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:43:29 -0700 From: "Lynn McIntosh" Re: FAIML #449; July 27, 2000 (compounding) >compounding meds >Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 12:28:24 -0400 >From: "Celia C." > >Hi, > >Has anyone had success with a sugar free or mostly sugar free 'recipe' for >compounding prednisone? Our pharmacy has been compounding Cokie's meds for a >while now, and now that I've found out 1. they are loaded with sugar and 2. she >has insulinoma, I'm stuck. There is a sugar free base they can use. It still has a slight fruity taste but may not be enough to mask the pred. Most of the flavors additives however do not contain sugar. If your pharmacy doesn't have these, look elsewhere. Find a place that specializes in mixing flavors to disguise medicine for children. Not a regular pharmacy that has 2-3 flavored syrups to mix in. All this aside, you could save yourself a lot of hassel by switching over to liquid pedia-pred instead of regular pred. Most ferrets don't "love" this but tollerate it quite well and don't fight it much. -Melissa ______________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:52:22 EDT From: Cnm419@aol.com noni juice Could someone tell me more about the noni juice? While my babies are healthy I would like to learn more about it and try some with them now to keep them "in the pink" so to speak. Thanks Connie Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 22:56:21 -0700 From: jhaze@postoffice.pacbell.net noni juice on line $20 post anonymous Hi all, If you go to your search engine and type in Noni juice many sites that sell noni will come up. They are all health food or vitamin distributors. I found the noni at my local health food store in Fremont for $24. I had a choice of brands and sizes also could have gotten capsules. I don't know enough about capsules and the liquid is sweet and easier to measure and mix with food (duck soup) There are many brands and I have not had the time to do the research. My Annie is on casodex for adrenal problems . It seems to have started working all of a sudden her hair is starting to grow back. I will continue with the noni and other herbs as she has a bad liver too. The casodex is $40. a pill and is crushed and mixed in a few cc of ferret tone. I am in the process of getting the casodex from Mexico with a prescription from my vet. Everything has to be Fed Exed to the pharmacy there. I will let you know how it goes. It would be cheaper if you could send more than one prescription at a time as it is costing $70. just to ship up 14 pills. If I needed $350. worth of meds it would still only cost the initial $70. The real kicker is the $23. to Fed Ex the check and prescription. How much could that weigh ? I am still coming out at about $15. a pill. So it will be worth all of the aggravation if it keeps my little girl alive longer. I am fortunate enough to have a vet that was willing to write the prescription. He says that the U.S. subsidizes third world countries that is why we pay more for meds here than any where in the world. God bless all of us and our sick fuzzies Donna and the illegal 8 ----------------------- End of FAIML #450 -------------------------