From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 1:44 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #451; August 6, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #451; August 6, 2000 There are six messages in today's list: Buddy Buddy (again) Winnie Re: FAIML #450; August 1, 2000 pred dosages Pediapred question FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 16:22:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Buetow" Buddy Hey everyone, I haven't posted for awhile, but have been keeping up. Now I would like some help. I think my Buddy's time might be coming. She is becoming more and more quiet and having extrememly frequent episodes of teeth grinding. She grinds her teeth when she has to go to the bathroom, after going to the bathroom, when she wakes up, after she eats and gets her meds. Although she has a litter box with a low side, sometimes she doesn't go in the box. I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't think it's her time now, but I think it's coming. How do I know if it's better to let her go or to try a last ditch surgery (which I'm pretty convinced she wouldn't survive, since she is extremely stressed whenever we go to the vet)? She does have insulinoma and probably adrenal disease, too. I'm so torn. She still loves to eat and is still slightly active, but is having definite problems. I sure wish she could talk. Sorry this is so long. Chris and the Sunshine Gang buetowc@sls.lib.il.us Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:41:55 -0500 (CDT) From: "Buetow" Buddy (again) Buddy and I visited the vet yesterday. He seemed to push for surgery as the only option to help her. Does anybody know of anything that helps alleviate nausea? That's my primary concern. Her episodes of teeth grinding are getting ever more frequent and lenthier as well. I really think it's due to the insulinoma and low blood sugar, because it happens at odd times and not only when she eats. We've tried carafate for several weeks and it didn't help at all. Any advice would be much appreciated, even if it's about surgery at the advanced age of 7+. Chris and the Sunshine Gang buetowc@sls.lib.il.us Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:13:39 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com Winnie I just wanted to thank all of you, I think the mutual agreement is that winnie's behavior may be a result of too much pediapred. I am going to very gradually lower her dose (.1cc every 3 weeks or so) until I reach a decison on what is th e best for her -a nd then get a BG done. So far on this .5, 2x a day she has NO licking, pawing or staring episodes which she did have before - we also had another war dance when she escaped her room and ran into my bedroom today -it was very nice to see. Thanks for you help and I will keep every one updated on her condition. -Amy Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:52:56 -0400 From: "Melissa" Re: FAIML #450; August 1, 2000 >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 07:43:28 -0700 >Odie and the boys > >About two weeks ago Odie, my 9 11/12 year old, insulinomic girl, started >"blowing up" . At first I figured she was finally getting "pred-belly", >then I started fearing the worst that she was starting to have fluid build up >related to congestive heart failure. So its off to the vet.......as she was >examining her Odie started to pee. Well the vet continued to express her >bladder and she peed, and peed and peed and by the time she finished I had a >nice sleek ferret again. It appears that while she is peeing on her own, she is >not emptying her bladder all the way....... whats causing it and is there >anything we can do for it? She does not have a bladder infection. A few things come to mind: 1) Heart -did your vet check things out anyway? "Eliminating" is sometimes more difficult in ferrets w/ heart problems 2) Kidneys 3) Some sort of muscle weakness making her "pushing" less effective -could be old age, could be insulinomal, could be adrenal -could be lots of things. 4) Adrenal -it's *rare* but adrenal disease in females can sometimes cause an enlargement of the uterine stump which can also interfere w/ urination. -Again this is rare, but a possibility. 5) Hate to say this.... tumor? Personally, I'd go for an ultrasound if it's feasible to see if there's any visible physical cause for why urine isn't flowing a freely as it should. -Melissa >Date: 30 Jul 00 12:19:59 -0500 >From: felty@t-one.net >18 month ferret has chronic diahrea-vomiting > >Hello GANG, > >I have a young albino ferret, that has reacurring diahrea and vomiting. Seems >good for a day then, back to diahrea. I have used peto bismol and now the vet >has sugessted predisone. Any help or ideas Thanks christy Go to http://www.ferretcentral.org and read the Medical FAQS on Helicobacter and on ECE for suggestions on dealing w/ diarhea. HOWEVER, if she's vomiting, your vet should do an xray to rule out a partial blockage, and possibly do a blood work up. Make sure the vet you're seeing is a ferret expert and not just a "nice vet who sometimes sees ferrets". How long has your ferret had this problem? When did it start? Have there been any changes in her surroundings recently? Food change, new pets, bug or cleaning spraying, new laundry detergent, any poisons she could be ingesting.... anything? -Melissa __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:43:06 -0500 From: "Debi & David Christy" pred dosages The pediapred dosage can be altered in small increments until you find a dosage that seems to provide the best result. In fact, our primary vet, Dr. Roger Kendrick, Mansfield, TX, usually has us start an insulinomic ferret (that's had a serious episode) on 1cc twice a day and lower it .1cc every two weeks until we reach a level where the ferret's activity level is good without having episodes of staring, stumbling, twitching, nausea, etc. This method provides protection from serious episodes until the best dosage is discovered for each ferret. For ferrets diagnosed from less serious episodes (serious meaning insulinomic shock) the beginning dosage is less than 1cc. Ferrets will also exhibit lethargy from too small a dosage of pediapred. So it's just something you have to juggle until you reach the best compromise. Just do it in increments of .1cc at a time and you shouldn't have any serious problems. A couple of weeks of one dosage is usually enough to get a good idea of it's effectiveness. But if you see any of the insulinoma symptoms after lowering the dosage, you should immediately give the ferret a little honey (1/2 tsp mixed with water) followed by a high protein snack (egg yolk, cooked & mixed with warm water, is great for this). Then increase the pred dosage to the previous level. I'm not a vet, just a Dr. Mom. This method has been very effective at both Ferret First shelters. Feel free to run this by your vet for confirmation. Debi Christy Ferrets First Foster Home Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:49:13 -0500 From: "Rich & Stacie Armstrong" Pediapred question WOW - I'm no expert, but .75 cc sounds likes a huge amount of prednisone, and it's showing terrible behavioral effects, from what you' ve described. We give .10 twice daily to our fairly normally-sized Bandit, who was recently diagnosed with lymphoma. Do you split the dosage into two med times? But still, I think your instincts are correct, that it is just way too much. I'd be interested in hearing what others have to say, since this Bandit is my first experience with prednisone and ferrets. Prednisone is physiologically very difficult to get off of, or reduce from a high dosage, without doing it slowly. It sounds like your weasel may not have been on it long enough, but it's always something to keep in mind when you change a dosage of pred that quickly. Best of luck. ----------------------- End of FAIML #451 -------------------------