From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 9:58 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #457; Sept. 1, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #457; Sept. 1, 2000 There are seven messages in today's list: Input wanted on quality of life and how you would handle it Ensure Glucerna os Missy's tail Missy's Tail Tail hair loss; swollen vulva?; pedipred causing baldness? DOCP vs Florinef dirty tails, Florinef vs Percoten FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:04:06 -0500 From: "Marge" Input wanted on quality of life and how you would handle it I am sending this out BCC to several people and also to the FAIML. This is my quandary. I have an 8 year old adrenal ferret, too thin and fragile for surgery. At the time of this writing, I have a vet appt for Saturday morning to confirm my suspicions. OH No Odo is 8 years old. Adrenals. And by all appearances and actions is also becoming insulinomic. (the vet appt is to find out his blood glucose count). Oh No Odo is at times it appears too weak to make it to the litter box to poop. There are no seizures because when I noticed the weight loss, I immediately started high protein supplemental feedings. Odo for the most part just lays in his cage, imo, like a limp rag. Within a years time frame, he has lost two cage mates, most recently Lady Schtinka. He will eat when I feed him or put duck soup in his cage. I am looking for YOUR INPUT as to how if he were your ferret (or if you've had one in similar circumstances) you judge the quality of life, and how to proceed. I realize everyone is different and that is why I am going to you for your inputs. I am in need of ideas of how to proceed. In your debt, Margie Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:37:29 -0400 (EDT) From: SADIBOO@webtv.net Ensure Glucerna os Help! I have 3 ferrets == all in good health at this time. I give then a ducksoup type mix once or twice a week, using Approx 1TBS. Ensure. This is so they recognize the taste, if it is ever necessay. I have been reading this amount of sugar may be deadly., so I purchased the Glucerna. The 2nd ingredient is corn, and the analysis states saccharin. What to do???? I only use this mix to keep them used to the mix, but now I am confused. I am sure others have this question so a reply will be beneficial. Thank you for your reply, Patti Neals * :0 :0 :O :) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:49:14 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com Missy's Tail Hi Kim, I had a similar situation with my ferret Connor. Connor was about a year old when he started to lose some hair on the bottom of his tail. It was just thin at first with black heads and then went completly bald - but just the bottom. I was told by his vet at the time to try to clean it with stridex (I think), but nothing helped. She assumed he was probably rubbing it out by dragging it. Whatever really happened I don't know, however about 6 months after the bottom of his tail went bald, he started to lose hair on his back. (Just so I don't get any responses from anyone. I am not saying the blackheads have anything to do with an adrenal tumor - I just know he had them in addition to his hair loss on the bottom of his tail - I know that topic has some up before so I am not intending to bring that up here. ) Anyway, in two days it will be one year since his last shot of lupron (he has three one month shots) and so far we are doing AMAIZING!!!! But if he did lose hair on the underside of his tail agian, he would be off to the vet again, because it seems in his case anyway that that was his first sign that he had a tumor. So maybe you want to keep this in mind. Hope this helps. Good luck. -Amy, Winnie, Chloe and Connor Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:08:02 EDT From: Ferrets1st@aol.com Missy's tail Both my vet and I have noticed that sometimes females will actually pull the hair from the underside of the tail (easiest spot to reach) when they are suffering from the hormonal changes brought on by adrenal tumors. This sounds like what you are describing. These hormonal changes can sometimes be drastic and in many cases the poor girl suffers through something similar to PMS in humans. This is why they will even pull out their own hair. Sometimes they chew the hairs on the ends of their tails too, and the end of their tail will appear as if someone trimmed it with scissors. I'd find a vet experienced in doing ultrasounds on *ferrets* who knows how to look for an adrenal tumor and I'd watch for other outward signs. The tail chewing alone is not enough reason to make a decision to perform surgery, so look for other confirmations before considering this. The ultrasound is the best choice to base the decision on. If you have a vet skilled in finding adrenal tumors on *ferrets* with ultrasound and a tumor is found which appears "operable", and the ferret is a good surgical candidate...operate. If no tumor is found, or if other factors would make the surgery not a good idea, then don't operate. If you do find a tumor but surgery is not an option, I'd try Lysodren. It slows/stops the growth of the tumor which in many cases eases or eliminates the PMS, too. We have had excellent results with many ferrets on Lysodren here at the shelter. Email me directly if you have futher questions. Kisses to Missy. Trish Director, Ferrets First Rescue & Shelter Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:10:04 EDT From: Lynn McIntosh Tail hair loss; swollen vulva?; pedipred causing baldness? Hi. I've got a gal with hair loss on her tail; it's been less then full for sometime. Whether her vulva is swollen is hard to say, because before it was just a tiny, and I mean tiny, point (an early spay and I always wondered how she turned out so, but then my other two were spayed late so perhaps this is normal for an early spay?) Now her vulva is bigger, though still smaller than my two other gals normal-sized vulvas. So... while she was under recently for a mast cell tumor removal I asked my vet to take some blood for an estradial test. Low and behold estradial is 206, whereas norm range is considered 130-180. There probably wasn't enough blood to do the other hormonal tests, but we were only going to try and have those done if the estradial didn't indicate adrenal, as it does. Unfortunately my vet, who I believe is the best ferret surgeon in Seattle, injured her back and is not practicing for awhile. But hopefully she'll be back soon. There is no other hair loss besides the tail. Questions. Has anyone else had a female go through exploratory, who had such a tiny tiny vulva to begin with that it was hard to say if it was enlarged? What was the outcome? Hair loss from pediapred? On the other hand, our Wally, who had a ping-pong ball sized tumor removed January, 2000, has never regained any hair on his tail and has large bald patches, but his estradial was 140 (the left adrenal was left in). The other hormonal tests weren't done because our vet said the cortisol would be elevated due to his being on 2 mls pediapred a day, so testing for cortisol was pointless, and I believe the third test wasn't done because he's never shown any signs of agression or problems urinating. My vet's conculusion is that the hair loss is due to the faked high cortisol levels from the pediapred. Anyone heard/experienced this? Thanks! PS. Our guy who had the bi-adrenalectomy and vena cava ligation (no choice apparently) is doing okay. His surgery was in July, 1999. He's been on a quarter tablet of florinef every other day, then every other two days, then every other day... since then. He was, unfortunately, recently diagnosed with insulinoma and is doing well on .25 pedipred in the morning. Darn. Looks like another impending surgery. L. Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:49:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clare Sebok" DOCP vs Florinef > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:04:50 -0400 > From: "Linda Iroff" > florinef vs DOCP > He mentioned 2 drugs that may be used, florinef and an injectable, which from > reading archived FAIMLs, I assume is DOCP (desoxycorticosterone pivalate), > trade name Percorten-V. Florinef is given daily, the injections about every 25 > days. > > Does anyone know anything about the relative merits of the two drugs other > than the convenience/inconvenience of daily oral drugs vs monthly injections? > Are there potential side effects? > > Any experiences anyone can tell me about these drugs would be most > appreciated. We have two ferrets on Florinef. Dr. Weiss said that some ferrets don't absorb Florinef well and do better on DOCP injections. Whichever you decide to do, be sure to monitor Caruso's Sodium/Potassium ratio. Be cautious about vaccinating a ferret who has inadequate adrenal output. Buttercup had a vaccine reaction to the rabies vaccine she received a month after her 3rd adrenal surgery. Keep a close eye on appetite and energy level. Problems with either one could indicate a need for DOCP or prednisone. Clare Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:00:43 -0400 From: "Mary L. McCarty" dirty tails, Florinef vs Percoten Kim- >I haven't posted in a long time, but do read the emails often. I have >noticed that my 2 year old female, Missy, has lost hair on the underside >of her tail. The top of her tail, from the tip to the back end is >fine. The loss is only on the bottom of her tail as if she had been >dragging it on the ground or something. In my experience, it's just a dirty tail (I've got quite a few that love to drag everything into the pottybox LOL). If you wash it well (sometimes I just rub a facial pad like Oxy or Nozema on it), it should regrow fine. Linda- >florinef vs DOCP I believe they are interchangeable. Normally, when I go to Dr. Weiss' they give them a Percoten shot, but the last group of surgeries we had done I had to give them Florinef in pill form as they had the Percoten back ordered. I know the Florinef costs are 20 pills = $21.89. No idea what the injection costs. My guys take the pills like little champs, but the injections are probably much easier in time savings Mary Mary McCarty-Houser, Director Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association of Centre County http://www.ferretrescue.com http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=9903&mid=114508 ----------------------- End of FAIML #457 -------------------------