From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 3:07 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #460 Sept. 7, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #460; Sept. 7, 2000 There are five messages in today's list: Condolences for Odo and Multiple Questions Seeking Advice on a "Possible" Adrenal Ferret Male/Female adrenal differences; Lupron Caruso and florinef vs DOCP My experience with Lupron FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 02:08:54 -0400 From: "Dale Nupp" Condolences for Odo and Multiple Questions Hello All: First, my sincere condolences to the person who recently lost Odo. I too have an Odo Ferret and they are very special fuzzies indeed. It is never easy to lose a fuzzy, particularly one named Odo. I do have some questions about my Odo. He was diagnosed with insulinoma several months ago, just about the time he turned four years old. Surgery was performed and he is now taking realatively small doses of both pred and proglycem. Since the surgery he seems to be averaging one minor seizure a month. Since my vet has confidence in me (shouldn't it be the other way around?) he leaves it to me to adjust medication dosages although he supplies me with the stuff in the right concentrations. I have noticed over time that Odo's fur has become somewhat thin and kind of brittle, a glossy thick coat it is not. Do either of the meds or the insulinomas affect the fur? Also, I noticed today for the first time that Odo had difficulty urinating. It took several times before anything came out and then it was the usual flood. Once again, will either of the meds or the disease cause this problem? I know male ferrets sometimes have prostate problems but I can't remember the cause. Odo does not seem to be in any significant stress so I am not inclined to run to the vet as I type this at 2:00AM. Any help and advice would be appreciated, even if they advice is to run to the vet at 3:00AM:o). I've done it before. Many thanks. Dale Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:36:24 +0100 From: Melissa.Sullivan@CliffordChance.com Seeking Advice on a "Possible" Adrenal Ferret Please forgive my utter ignorance - I am brand new to this list, although I have been a sporadic subscriber to the FML for the past 4 years. Here's my problem: I have a 3 year old male ferret (Fee) who has started to lose the fur on his tail. I moved apartments on 7/1; shortly thereafter, he developed a small bald patch in the middle of the top side of his tail. I had hoped this could be attributed this to the stress of the move. The bald spot remained unchanged until about two weeks ago when I began to notice a more substantive loss (still on the top of his tail). I have also noticed some blackheads on his tail. He seems to be particularly itchy of late. He has shown some minimal mating behavior with his toys in the past couple of weeks. Otherwise, he is acting completely normal. I took Fee to the vet (not impressively knowledgeable about ferrets) who recommended an ultrasound. Fee had the ultrasound on Friday. The vet reports that the right adrenal is normal, the left is slightly enlarged. Neither the vet nor the ultrasound vet are comfortable with the ultrasound results indicating adrenal disease in the left gland. They recommend waiting and doing another ultrasound in 3-6 months. I am not at all comfortable with this advice since Fee is clinically showing a lot of the signs of adrenal disease and I would prefer to treat this as soon as possible. I have tried to read up on adrenal disease in ferrets (including Ferret Central and other commonly recommended web sites) but there is such a wealth of what appears to be independent knowledge that is often conflicting . There is very little consensus in what I have found. My core questions: (1) ANY recommendations for ferret or adrenal ferret specific vets in the metro New York City area (I live in Hoboken, New Jersey and work in the City) to offer a second opinion and discuss additional options intelligently; (2) what other tests can be done to determine adrenal disease and what are the success rates in diagnosis; (3) are there any other possible causes of hair loss on the tail; and (4) any possible guidance on this. I want to do everything within my power to help Fee - from becoming more knowledgeable about this disease and the options in treating it to finding a vet who can truly help him (by and far, my biggest problem). I thank you all in advance for sharing your stories and for your help. Melissa Sullivan ************************************************************ This message and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete this message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. For further information about Clifford Chance please see our website at http://www.cliffordchance.com or refer to any Clifford Chance office. Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:59:30 EDT From: FHbytheSea@aol.com Re: FAIML #459; Sept. 12, 2000: Male/Female adrenal differences; Lupron : "Cary Atlas" wrote: >My family and I have two ferrets, one male and one female. The male seems to >be showing signs of adrenal disease. We have taken him to the vet and had >blood drawn to deterimine if in fact he has adrenal disease. We also have been >searching the internet to educate ourselves. Our vet told us that his >impression is that male ferrets tend to do worse than female ferrets post adrenal >surgery. >Does anyone know of any information on this subject? We want to give him >the surgery if it will help the adreanl disease but not at the cost of kidney or >prostate trouble. Or worse, we do not want him to die during or immediately after >surgery. Hi Cary I haven't seen any difference in recovery rates (male vs. female) in regards to adrenal surgery -- but what I would emphasize is the difference in symptoms. In male ferrets, the prostate can swell and become so enlarged as to block the urethra and this can be a life-threatening occurrance. I have had about 30 adrenal cases in my shelter -- and I don't use age as a factor anymore -- I look at the overall condition of the ferret. I have had 5 year olds that I wouldn't even consider doing surgery on, and 8 year olds sail through it. I consider male ferrets with adrenal disease to be a higher priority than the girls, because of the prostate issue. Ben, an SPCA kid, came in totally blocked - - he was dribbling urine everywhere -- we had to have emergency surgery to reroute his urethra in order to save his life. He is doing great now -- you would never have known that this ferret was half bald by what his appearance is today. The rerouting is totally unnoticeable, unless you check his litterbox. Surgery is always a risk, no matter what - but at least with adrenal disease, the possibility that the ferret will be cured is 50/50. If surgery isn't an option, Lupron shots are, or lysodren (mitotane) which may not be as effective as lupron and can also create serious low blood sugar problems. Troy Lyn -- on a new lupron kid, in my experience it sometimes takes the second shot a month after the first, before you start to see results. I have only had the Lupron shot be ineffective on one ferret - and we believe its because of the type of adrenal disease Emily has -- hers is of the malignant variety. We continue her shots anyway as it does seem to help her with the itching and swelling vulva.The treatment for adrenal ferrets recommended by my vet is: do the first shot, one month later second shot, maintenance shots after that 6-10 weeks apart (depending on recurrance of symptoms). Our shots cost $30.00 for the girls and $50.00 for the boys. I have three ferrets currently receiving these shots - Emily, Bandit and Trella. All three are bilateral, and Bandit and Emily also have insulinoma. The lupron has had no effect on their insulinoma. I hope that this helps. Lisa Leidig, Head Ferret The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea" http: www.ferrethaven.org Want to help The Ferret Haven By-the-Sea? Register at iGive.com by cutting and pasting this link: http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?CID=1236&MID=854 Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:49:50 -0400 From: "Linda Iroff" Caruso and florinef vs DOCP Thanks to Clare, Mary and Celia for relating their experiences with florinef and DOCP. Fortunately, Caruso's sodium/potassium ration was 31 to 1, needs to be at least 27 to 1, so he doesn't need any additional meds at this time. I'm also trying to slowly wean him off pediapred (he also had partial pancreatectomy). He is down to half of his pre-surgical dose with no adverse effects. He is losing his flab and putting on a bit of muscle, and is far more active than before surgery. Now if his fur would just start growing back! Poor baby is losing ground there, having had part of his neck shaved this morning for the blood test! Linda Iroff Oberlin OH Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:52:12 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com My experience with Lupron I know that there are different lupron injections out there and it isn't specified which one your ferret recieved, but my connor was just 1.5 years (June 1999) when he got his frist one month shot of Lurpon. We continued that for three months (I.E.- three one month shots). At the vet that Connor sees, there is an ultrasound technician who comes to preform them. I am not sure of the details, but I think that is all he does for a living and he therfore sees a lot of tumors and so forth. Anyway, upon his discusison with the vet, turns out Connor had one of the largest tumors they had seen and of course it was a left sided one. It was opted not for surgery because Connor's heart was a little funny at the time. There was nothing unsuual seen at the time on the ultrasoudn with the heart, but he had a strange murmor - sometimes it is there, sometimes it isn't, sometimes moving him makes it go away, sometimes it doesn't. Plus there was another reason not to do surgery, but I forgot at this moment. Anwyay, about two weeks after his second shot he started to get all these yucky crusty yellow spots on him. To my surprise at the third injection, the vet said that was new hair coming in - some reaction wiht his saliva or soemthing made the orange color, but htere was stubble under in and it was itching him (new hair growth itches as I am sure most of us know). So, I thought everything was looking good - new hair growth had to be a good thing. I left connor there that day so that he could get the third shot and anotehr ultrasound to see what has gone on. The vet was in a meeting when I picked coonor up so he called me that evenign to tell me that his tumor had grown! I was so upset - Nice that his hair grew in - but it was just masking everything -for sure it would only last a few weeks tops. The vet told to to watch him carefully and monitor him and call him with any questions. Connor never knew anything was wrong with him - the only thing he knew was that his oldest sister would laugh at his baldness and he didn't get why he was bald. After all, he felt just fine and looked it at a nice plump 2.5 lbs. Well, we have just past our one year anniversary from the last and final shot where his tumor was bigger and we are doing great. Happy and more active than ever - eats like a horse and it over 3 lbs now. Hair as beautiful as can be - long and lusch as those boys can get. So, even though things didn't look good at first - th ey seem to be looking pretty good so far. So don't give up yet - it may just take some time and hopefully you will get as much luck as connor has so far. Don't give up and good luck. Hugs to all teh fuzzies. Amy, WInnie, Chloe and Connor ----------------------- End of FAIML #460 -------------------------