From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:05 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #465; Sept. 27, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #465; Sept. 27, 2000 There are eight messages in today's list: Insulinoma question Help with Podo post More Questions About Odo Moxy is gone! LUPRON Lupron Answers Ferret Longevity... Ferret Longevity FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET

in the body of the email. Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:08:12 +0100 From: "Ulrike" Subject: Insulinoma question Hi My ferret Jilly has had suspected insulinoma for 1 3/4 years. She never showed many symptoms so I wasn't sure whether she actually had insulinoma. She was diagnosed because she had a low blood sugar but since then just didn't show any of the other typical symptoms. But yesterday I found her limp and totally "out of it" but a bit of honey on her gums brought her round. So I guess she has insulinoma for sure. My question is, how long do ferrets live for on avergae once they've got that far advanced that they become unconscious? Jilly has been on pred since she was first diagnosed but I took her off it 2 months ago because I thought it was making her feel sick and she's been better since I stopped it and has stopped gagging before she eats but now I'll have to put her back on pred. But I just wanted to know how much longer she'll live for (approx.) and what other people have experienced. Best wishes to everyone from Ulrike and Jilly, Jack, Igor, Bella, Tom, Mason, Baby, Dana, Fox, Reno, Rose, Jasmine, Barney and Spike Missing Angel and Hope West Wales Ferret Welfare http://www.ferretlove.freeserve.co.uk Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:41:16 -0400 From: "Kim" Subject: Help with Podo post This is my first post to the list. I've lost 3 fuzzies in 5 months and I have one more that not doing well. All four were born in 5/94. Codo had insulimona. I euthanized her because she was so bad & constantly grinding her teeth.An autopsy revealed pancreatic cancer. Next was Banzai he had a huge tumor on his spleen and I opted for surgery when the Doc opened him up he had a golf ball sized tumor on his liver and his spleen was riddled with tumors, we were losing him on the table so I euthanized him right then. Then Shenzai had a right adrenal tumor and was doing great. I woke up one morning and she had seizured in the night the damaged was irreversible and I euthanized her. Now Podo has a pea sizedlump under his left arm, his blood work showed nothing under the ordinary except his WBC was 4600; ALT 54u/l And his glucose was 54.1mg/dl. Last glucose check in 4/00 it was 74.8. I know this is low so we suspect Insulinomas but his weight has dropped in 3 weeks from 3.25# to 2.6# He will only eat if force fed. I work at the vet he goes to and they are stumped. I thought one of you out there came help with some suggestions. He has an appt at Dr. G 's office on Thursday, he has a more experience with ferrets Wish me luck and please send me any help you can offer. Kim & Podo Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 01:53:07 -0400 From: "Dale Nupp" Subject: More Questions About Odo Hello All: Several weeks ago I posted about my Insulinoma fuzzy named Odo. At the time I indicated that Odo seemed to be losing fur, that the fur he had left was brittle and that he had trouble uriniating. I questioned whether the pediapred or proglycem he was taking would contribute to these signs. I received several responses both on and off the list (thanks everybody) indicating that it might be signs of adrenal disease or a reaction to the prednisone. Before I take Odo back to the vet I thought I would ask the same question again but explain Odo's signs in more detail. Odo was diagnosed with insulinoma this spring and underwent surgery shortly thereafter. He has been taking both pediapred and proglycem twice a day at fairly low doses. Odo has lost a lot of fur fairly evenly around is entire body. He never grew back any of the fur that was shaved off of his belly for surgery. Odo has lost a lot of weight. I am now trying to put some weight back on him by hand feeding him a quarter can of Science Diet AD, twice a day. He also gets as much of several different kinds of kibble as he wants. It seems that the hand feeding is making him a little stronger. He has not had any seizures in a number of weeks nor have I seen him have trouble urinating again. However, his brittle fur continues. In addition, he seems quite itchy and has scratched enough so that there are minor abraisons all over his body. Poor guy:o( Finally, and this may or may not have anything to do with it but Odo was my alpha ferret and was deposed several months ago by Dakota, my new energiser kit. So I guess he has some stress. Once again, any thoughts? Adrenal disease or medication reactions? Any thoughts on what I should do, other than a trip to the vet? Thanks, Dale Missing Burt Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:55:55 -0400 From: "Sally St. Germain" Subject: Moxy is gone! It is with intense grief that I tell my FAIML family, we helped Moxy to cross the bridge this morning. She had a 2 year battle with adrenalcortical carcinoma. I have been blessed with her love for 8 years. Each day of the last 2 years, since her first surgery for adrenal cancer, has been a blessing. I felt that each day was borrowed time and never let a day go by without telling her how much I loved her. She has gone down hill really quickly over the week-end. Last night she took her duck soup and a really big drink of water for the last time, at supper time. She refused all attempts to feed her after that. All I could do was love her and cuddle her for in my heart I knew she no longer enjoyed her life. She was getting very weak, and could not stand up on her own. I feel she either had a stroke, or the cancer had spread to the brain. She held her head in a really odd tilt to the left, and even though she did try to move, it was in a circular movement to the left. I was up with her all night, and no matter what we did, she did not seem to be able to get comfortable for very long. I gave her some rescue remedy and that seemed to help her settle some. I gave her permission to leave and to join Baby and her brothers Toby, Bear and Murphy. She was particularly close to Baby and Toby. She was my very first ferret. The one who started the addiction. She was the only one who was extremely in tune with my moods. When she felt I needed comfort, she would shower my face with kisses and settle under my shirt to comfort me. She was practically glued to me for several days, when my Dad died. We are taking her to my Mom's later today to bury her beside Baby. I've put her favourite piece of velcro in with her. Actually it is a train of several pieces of velcro that she has collected over the years. There wasn't a piece of velcro that was safe with Moxy around. Running shoes, that had vecro closures were fair game to her, even if they were still on a pair of feet. A bit more of a challenge to get her teeth into, but fair game just the same. Please everyone, give your babies an extra hug and a kiss in Moxy's memory tonight. Sally St. Germain and her 10 "Little Saints." Hi....my name is Sally....I am a ferret-a-holic!!!! Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:35:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joyce Snyder" Subject: LUPRON KIM: We are going thru the EXACT same thing right now that you are...Fortunately we have several very ferret knowledgeable vets in our area. Our TARA had a left adrenal surgery March of l999...She is 41/2 years old..and had some difficulty during the first surgery. She is now going adrenal again. Unless something happens where she HAS to have the surgery we are going with the LUPRON shots.. Your vet gets the LUPRON...there are two ways of doing this....monthly...the shots here range around $30 per shot...or you can go with the long term shot which lasts approximately 6 months and the cost here is roughly $275-$300 per shot...I have heard that in other areas of the country the cost is a little lesss....We are in Florida and my friend in SC only paid $225 for her 6 month shot...Try to find a vet that can answer all your questions as there are some other things you should know...If you would like to email me personally I will be glad to try and help if I can..GOOD LUCK with your sweet furface. I know it's a difficult decision. FOR THE FUZZIES Joyce Snyder Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:10:58 EDT From: Kgsalimy@aol.com Subject: Lupron answers Kim (dagger4u@home.com) asked: >>Some questions come to mind: how do i get it? how many shots of Lupron do you have to get? how much does each shot cost and what is the time frame between each shot (if there is more than one) The funny thing is, my vet has never even mentioned this stuff. I'm worried I won't be able to do this treatment. << Not all vets will mention Lupron therapy, it is a relatively new treatment, used off label for ferrets and not cheap. My vet knew of it, but had never used it before my JoJo because he was not aware that it was available in ferret sized doses. I did the research, found a compounding pharmacy and presented all the info to my vet. He then ordered it and we got JoJo started on the treatment. You will find a great deal of info on adrenal disease and treatment options, including Lupron therapy at: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/ There you will also find a link to an article written by Dr. Weiss, "Lupron Demystified", which includes the telephone number for the pharmacy that compounds Lupron in ferret sized doses. Otherwise, you'll have to buy an entire human sized vial, which will run you a couple of thousand dollars. Lupron is available in several different forms, the four month depot being the most highly recommended and the one we have JoJo on. You will need to give the injection every four to six months and it will probably cost you between $300 to $400 per injection, depending on your vet's markup. My suggestion to you would be to print out the articles by Dr. Weiss, including the pharmacy telephone number, and take them to your vet. As in the case of my own veterinarian, he may not know of this compounding pharmacy or of the success so many of us have had with ferrets on Lupron therapy. Good luck, Kim. If I can be of any help to you, please feel free to e-mail me privately. Kathy <>< *** Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. *** Hebrews 11:1 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:01:49 EDT From: Kgsalimy@aol.com Subject: Ferret Longevity "John Rosloot" wrote: >>I believe a few people have posted that their ferrets typically live 10 years or more. In 20 years of practice my vet has never seen a 10 year old ferret. I've only had 3 ferrets, so my experience is limited, but my first two didn't make 10, and at 6 years old Sammy probably won't reach 10 either, having been diagnosed with insulinoma 1.5 years ago (happily he's been in full remission, if that's the right term, since having a partial pancreatomy in April). << John, I think the key word here is "few". Some people do have ferrets who live to be 10 and even older, but I think they are the exception, not the rule. A ferret's normal life span seems to be more in the 5 to 8 year range. My vet has been in practice for 35 years, he specializes in ferrets and was a ferret owner himself for 18 of those years ... my eight year old Skitty was his oldest patient ever. >> So my question is, what are the people with long-lived ferrets doing right that I'm doing wrong? Is it diet? Environment? Genetics? << I doubt you are doing anything wrong, John, provided you have your kids on a good diet and provide them with proper veterinary care. There is much speculation over the cause of adrenal disease and insulinoma in American ferrets ... these diseases are almost unheard of in New Zealand and, if I remember correctly, European ferrets have a very low incidence of these diseases. Some blame the high content of grain products in the kibble we feed our kids, some say it is due to our ferrets being exposed to artificial lighting for extended periods of time ... but most researchers and veterinarians seem to think the main cause is early neutering. Most of our pet ferrets come from large breeding farms where they are neutered prior to five or six weeks of age. Ferrets who are neutered after they reach sexual maturity at about six months of age grow up with the benefit of all those extra hormones, which seems to reduce the incidence of adrenal disease. If a serious study were done, we would probably find that the majority of those ferrets who live 10, 12 and more years were neutered later in life. >> I'd love to get more ferrets, but the last few years of worrying over various illnesses and the grief of losing them after too few years make it a hard choice. << After I lost my first two ferrets (Scat in 1995 at age 6 1/2 to adrenal disease and Skitty in 1997 to insulinoma at age eight), I felt the same way. The grief over their loss was something I didn't think I could go through again. After being ferretless for only three months, I succumbed to the charms of Sparkle ... a cute little Siamese kit in a pet store who kissed me on the nose when I picked her up. Just a few short hours after taking her home, I realized what had been missing from my life for the past three months ... laughter ... and joy ... and unconditional love. And I realized that, even though the pain of their loss is so very hard to bear, the joy they bring into my life makes it worth it. Ferret math has since struck me several times and I now have eleven ... I can't ever imagine a life not filled with silly weasels. Kathy <>< Mom to Sparkle, Flash, JoJo, Sunshine, Fox, Valentine, Bouncer, Cosmo, Grace, Simon and Chance *** Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. *** Hebrews 11:1 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:14:16 -0700 From: "Linda Knights" Subject: Ferret Longevity... Ferret Longevity - Hi all - I wanted to answer this question - or maybe a "not" answer is the best way to phrase it. We've had a total of 17 ferrets in the 10 years I've had ferrets. Our oldest, to date, is Doc who is approaching 9 very rapidly. He now has insulinoma which has gotten markedly worse in the last two months (despite Pred) so I have to assume that he likely won't make it much past 9. Many of our boys are 7 or above (out of the 15 ferrets we currently have 7 are over the age of 7 with 3 approaching 8 and Doc nearly 9). Of the group over 7 - all but one has had adrenal tumors removed and all but 2 have insulinomas of various degrees of severity. We also have a group of 5-6 year olds (3 of them) one of which has had an adrenal tumor. Health care for ferrets is vastly improved over the last 3 years any I have hopes that many of my 5-6 year olds and the rest of the babies will have a much better chance at hitting 10. The vet I work with up here has a number of ferrets in her practice who are approaching 10 and just had one have to be put down who was 11. I have to believe that the "luck of the draw" is genetics. The younger ferrets, bred from better stock, tend to be healthier all around. My older guys, who were much smaller, all have had health problems and all ended up with tumors. When we first got into this we were told the 'average' life span of a ferret was 6 years. Now I'm told the 'average' is 8-10 years and going up. A breeder I spoke with (on the east coast) routinely gets 8 lb boys (full grown obviously) and has had no incidences of adrenal cancer or insulinoma in her last 4 years of breeding (whenever possible she has been actively breeding for health - no history of cancer in the family). She told me that many of the private breeders she works with are doing the same thing, hoping to breed out the tendency to adrenal cancer and insulimona. None of her ferrets are old enough to be sure she has succeeded - as both cancers hit most often in older ferrets - but she has more and more hope with each passing year that she is on the right track. For my money that is the way we'll see an end to this nightmare. We love the ones we have, and deal as best we can, with their illnesses and hope that in 10 years a list like this won't even be necessary. Linda K (owned by 15 little fuzzy friends) linda@knightwriter.or ----------------------- End of FAIML #465 -------------------------