From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:02 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #469; Oct. 9, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #469; Oct. 9, 2000 There are six messages in today's list: Update on Baby Loss of appetite Seeking Vet in SF, CA Duke...Rainbow Bridge Reply: urgent An intro to VIN FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:51:16 EDT From: JLGloer@aol.com Update on Baby I know it's been quite a while since I have posted, but overall both my girls, Baby and Chayse have been doing very well until recently. Chayse has now had 4 or 5 Lupron shots and is doing wonderful on them. Except for some bare spots on her tail, she has a full coat back and has put on about 3 oz and kept it on. She is very active but not as hyper and aggressive as she was before. Still seems to hump everything in sight, but just loving life. On the other hand, Baby who always had the wonderful coat is continously losing hair. The Lupron shots do not seem to be doing much for her, so we continue to up the dosage to see if it will do anything. I believe she would be a lot worse off without the shots. Baby's insulinoma has been under control since the last episode about 5-6 months ago. However, at the last vet check we found out Baby's lymph nodes are swollen really bad. We just thought she was getting fat. Anyways, the vet said the only thing she knew of was heliobactor or lymphosarcoma (sp?) that would cause the lymph nodes to swell. Well, i am starting to get pretty worried. In 10 days, Baby is now showing signs of possible pain in the abdomin area and has trouble getting in her hammock, getting out of her sleeping hole under the counter, and refuses to stand on her back legs for her treats. It seems like the helibactor treatment is not working and the one medicine Baby is now chocking herself on, gagging, and foaming severely at the mouth. As of this morning I couldn't even get 1/3 of the dose in her, so I skipped her dose tonight until I talk to the vet tomorrow. We are now noticing the lymph nodes in the neck are protruding also. My question is, how do you know when your ferret is in enough pain to do somthing about it? Baby runs around, but sleeps a lot during play time. She does tend to flinch a little and sort of moans when I touch certain spots on her belly, and the glands do not seem to be going down at all. I have kept them on a high protein diet with no sugary treats since Baby was first diagnosed with insulinoma last December. Baby is eating fine at this time. Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated at this time. Love, hugs, and kisses to all the ferts and prayers for those on the other side of the rainbow bridge. Julie Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:23:45 EDT From: Kgsalimy@aol.com Loss of appetite My three year old Flash was diagnosed with insulinoma on September 5 of this year. My vet put him on a special insulinoma elixir and prednisolone (0.5cc) twice daily ... after three weeks, we decreased the pred dosage to 0.25cc. Although Flash's blood glucose level is holding at 94, he still doesn't have the energy level I had hoped he would ... he's certainly no where near as active as before the illness. I think part of this is because of his HUGE pred belly ... even when he tries to jump and play, it seems to drag him down. My biggest concern is that Flash seems to have lost his appetite. The elixir he takes is several vitamins and supplements in a base of chicken baby food and rabbit & rice feline diet, with chicken broth to thin it to a liquid ... he takes 2 ounces twice daily. He loves it, and I think it is at least partially responsible for our being able to decrease the pred, but since I started the treatment, he very seldom eats his kibble and I'm concerned that Flash is not getting enough nutrition. I can't say he's lost weight because he's developed that awful pred belly (looks and feels like he's going to explode), but he seems to be losing muscle ... I can feel his little bones and his face has become very thin. Flash has always been a muscular guy with a summer weight of just under 3 pounds and a winter weight of 3 1/2 pounds. According to the scales, his weight is the same as always, but most of it now is his belly. I'm thinking perhaps I should put him on supplemental feedings at least twice a day. Although this elixir can be fed exclusively to sick animals who aren't able to eat, it is not intended to replace Flash's normal diet. So my question is: What should I be feeding Flash? He won't eat Bob C's Chicken Gravy, I've tried it in the past. Should I make him a soup with his regular kibble and force him to eat? With him taking the elixir twice daily (2 oz. each serving), how often should I feed him? Mike, I copied part of your post at the beginning because you mentioned that you feed Beasley a high protein meal four times a day ... may I ask what it is you feed him? I, too, have no life and am never away from the critters for more than a couple of hours, so the time element is no problem. I just don't really know what I should be doing here, since I've never before dealt with the treatment of insulinoma. I will, of course, discuss this with Flash's vet, but we don't go back for another glucose check until the end of this month. In the meantime, I would like to try to help him feel better. Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions. Kathy Salimy Mom to Sparkle, Flash, JoJo, Sunny, Fox, Valentine, Bouncer, Cosmo, Grace, Chance and Simon (never forgetting Skitty and Scat, the first silly weasels to steal my heart) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:31:10 EDT From: Anonymous Seeking Vet in SF, CA Im looking for a vet in the San Francisco Bay Area that can handle a adrenal and insulinoma ferret. He is not on any meds right now and had surgery about two months ago. He is still bald and doing that marking thing on everything he walks over. He is eating chicken baby food but is still very thin and will also every now and then eat dry food (not his regular ferret food but a good quality kitten food he thinks its a treat) But I know he needs to be examined by a doctor and start on medication. I had a bad experience with our last vet and dont know any other vets in the area to go to. If any one has any suggestions I would really appreciate it. Thanks Repostacy MODERATOR'S NOTE: I wasn't sure if this was to posted anonymously, so erred on the safe side. I will be happy to forward all replies. Just send them to me and specify also if you'd like them posted in the next list or not. Lynn From: Kelli Heady Date: 9 Oct 2000 23:22:09 -0000 Duke...Rainbow Bridge To Lynn and All who responded, Thanks so much for the support. "The Duke" passed away at 12:51 a.m. on Sunday October 9, 2000. I'm so glad I brought hime home so that we could at least be together. Thanks to all who sent the messages of support, you'll never know how much they helped. My head knows it was for the best, but my heart hasn't come to that conclusion as of yet. Again Thanks Kelli "Such small bodies, such huge souls..." Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:30:41 -0500 From: "Debi & David Christy" Reply: urgent First of all, I'm not a vet, just the Dr. Mom to my 25 and a frequent sitter for the main shelter's 90+ fuzzies and a "frequent flyer" from here to the vet's. I'm not sure what your vet's calling this, but it sounds like a bladder, prostrate, or urinary infection of some type as well as anemia and insulinoma. The infection (I'm getting that from the "sky-high white cell" count) is probably the most dangerous at this point. You're giving Clavamox, which is good, but we usually ALSO give Baytril for serious infections. Baytril can make a big difference with even serious cases in less than a day. Our usual dosage (prescribed by our vets) is up to .4ml (injectable) twice a day for 2 days, then .2ml twice a day for 5 more days (dosage varies according to ferret weight). In critical cases we have given an initial 1ml injection. We have mixed injectable Baytil with soup and given it orally with good results. You might discuss this with your vet. The insulinoma (hind end weakness, stumbling) is the second most serious. Take a very serious look at your soup recipe. Take out all sugars... Nutrical, Ensure (or any other human supplement drink... they are a poor choice for ferret nutrition... most especially insulinoma ferrets), brewer's yeast, etc. Put in a liquid vitamin, and an egg yolk (one yolk per day). This gives your ferret what he needs, vitamins and animal protein, and leaves out what he doesn't need, sugar and milk. The best, and simplest, soup is their regular dry food mixed with water and with vitamins (liquid, from your vet). The egg yolk added to it is specifically for insulinoma ferrets but can be fed to others as well. ANY SUGARS IN YOUR SOUP COULD BE AFFECTING THE EFFICIENCY OF THE PRED. The anemia condition takes time to correct. The liquid vitamin supplement is the most effective treatment. We give .1cc of Pet Tinic (your vet may have a brand he prefers) twice daily in soup (as above) for anemic ferrets, until weight is gained & color is good. Debi Christy Ferrets First Foster Home Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:46:43 EDT From: PoddoFeret@aol.com An intro to VIN Hi all! I just wanted to take a minute to introduce you to the Pet Care Forum on VIN. VIN stands for the Veterinary Information Network, and you can find the Pet Care Forum at: www.vin.com/petcare. The Veterinary Information Network was founded by Vets, and has over 6,000 veterinarians who share their knowledge of the pets they treat. Hosts on VIN are all caretakers, breeders, and exhibitors of at least one breed of pet. This web page contains chats, and message boards to help you connect with owners of ferrets, and other pets. There are Questions for Vets boards, discussion boards and health and behavior boards along with many others on the message board page. The chats are fun, and easy to find from the Pet Care Forum page. From this page you can also download the chat software to allow your computer to read the chat rooms. Registration is quick and easy; and best of all it's Free! If you have any questions feel free to e-mail PCFKoddo@VIN.com, or PCFJade@VIN.com and we will answer any questions you have as soon as possible. PoddoFeret@aol.com ----------------------- End of FAIML #469 -------------------------