From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:16 PM
To: FAIMLanon; FAIML
Cc: faiml@uswest.net
Subject: FAIML #470; Oct. 10, 2000- Urgent

Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #470; Oct. 10, 2000   


There are five messages in today's list:  

Reggie, Preventing Attacks  - URGENT POST
Reply: Urgent
Flash's insulinoma
Baby's swollen lymph nodes
Brewers Yeast


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Date:  Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:49:25 -0400
From:  "Erin E. Shepherd" <ees@ahhif.org>
Reggie, Preventing Attacks  - URGENT POST

I am trying to keepmy 6 year old male Reggie from having insulinomatic 
attacks. reggie has had insulinoma for nearly a year now, and had surgery for 
adrenal 1.5 years ago.I took him to our vet last week after a series of attacks 
(drooling, pawing at mouth, etc.). Doc had me increase the prednisone to .25 
mg twice/day (from .18). I think it helped for a few days, but it started 
happening again yesterday (two times). Doc had me adjust the pred again to 
.35 mg twice/day. I feel like we're increasing the dosage at too fast a rate - i 
know it probably varies from case to case, but do you have any idea how long 
should it take for Reggie to stabilize and reach his "clinical threshold"? what is a 
safe rate to increase the pred?   

Reggie gets high protein meals two times/day (just started feeding three 
times/day) - Ultrablend with Ferratone (chicken flavor, canned food). It's weird 
because he's having these spells after his meals (first aid says to follow attack 
with high protein meal, but it's as if the food brings it on). I use a little bit of 
honey to bring him out of the shock, but i'm not even sure that's working. What 
more can i do to make him comfortable, prevent these attacks, and treat him 
when he does have an attack?   

I really don't know how many attacks he's having since i work all day. feeling 
pretty helpless here. he's suffering and there's little i can do. Surgery isn't an 
option at this point. i see all these duck soup recipes, and, well, it all looks so 
complicated. i wouldn't even know where to go to get some of the ingredients, 
etc. Actually, Reggie looks better than he ever has - he's at a good weight and 
his coat shines. He has a big appetite right now, and so i haven't changed his 
diet.   

i realize it's just a matter of time, and that there isn't a cure.i am very realistic 
and am preparing for Reggie's decline, but i just want to find out if there's 
anything else i can be doing to make him more comfortable. i appreciate this list-
serve and the effort fellow subscribers make to help one another.  

~~<:))))><~~~<:))))><~~~~<:))))><~~~~~~>*)((((((>>><~~
Erin E. Shepherd
Member Services Director
Associated Home Health Industries of Florida, Inc.
ees@ahhif.org
http://www.ahhif.org
Date:  Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:09:04 EDT
From:  Outlaw50@aol.com
Reply: Urgent

In a message dated 10/10/00 1:06:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
faiml@uswest.net writes:

<< I'm not sure what your vet's calling this, but it sounds like a bladder, 
prostrate, or urinary infection of some type as well as anemia and insulinoma. 
The infection (I'm getting that from the "sky-high white cell" count) is probably 
the most dangerous at this point. You're giving Clavamox, which is good, but 
we usually ALSO give Baytril for serious infections. Baytril can make a big 
difference with even serious cases in less than a day. Our usual dosage 
(prescribed by our vets) is up to .4ml (injectable) twice a day for 2 days, then 
.2ml twice a day for 5 more days (dosage varies according to ferret weight). In 
critical cases we have given an initial 1ml injection. We have mixed injectable 
Baytil with soup and given it orally with good results. You might discuss this with 
your vet.  >>  

Unfortunately, I did not see the original post.  Several words in this response 
concern me, only because they also sound like they "could" be symptoms of 
Aleutian Disease.  Please e-mail me privately and let me know just what's going 
on.  

Judy


Date:  Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:01:28 EDT
From:  Outlaw50@aol.com
Flash's insulinoma

In a message dated 10/10/00 1:06:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
faiml@uswest.net writes:

<< My three year old Flash was diagnosed with insulinoma on September 5 of 
this year. My vet put him on a special insulinoma elixir and prednisolone (0.5cc) 
twice daily ... after three weeks, we decreased the pred dosage to 0.25cc. 
Although Flash's blood glucose level is holding at 94, he still doesn't have the 
energy level I had hoped he would ... he's certainly no where near as active as 
before the illness. I think part of this is because of his HUGE pred belly ... even 
when he tries to jump and play, it seems to drag him down.   >>  

One of the side effects of pred can be lethargy.  A ferret with insulinoma often 
doesn't know it's supposed to eat kibble.  The insulinoma affects the brain in 
some way.  I know you tried the chicken gravy and Flash didn't like it, but 
please try it again...it took my last "hold out" 3 months to begin eating the gravy 
off the plate, but now mine all love it.  They run to the kitchen when they hear 
the microwave.  There are a few tips to get them to start eating the gravy...let 
me know if you'd interested.  PLEASE do try one more time.  I used a syringe 
the first few times, then let them lick it off my finger.  Shania had all the problems 
your Flash had, but after a few weeks on the chicken gravy, I was able to wean 
her off the pred completely.   She got her energy level back, she ate kibble 
again, and even wrestled with her friends.  She lived 26 months after her 
surgery...the last 19 free of any medication.  We lost Shania 2 weeks ago.  

A friend is putting up an ADV web page for me.  Please visit "White Russian's 
ADV Page".  There is a picture of Shania on it, too.  

http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html

Thank you.  (don't forget to sign the "guest book")

Judy


Date:  Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:53:14 EDT
From:  Outlaw50@aol.com
Baby's swollen lymph nodes

In a message dated 10/10/00 1:06:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
faiml@uswest.net writes:

<< However, at the last  vet check we found out Baby's lymph nodes are 
swollen really bad.  We just  thought she was getting fat.  Anyways, the vet said 
the only thing she knew  of was heliobactor or lymphosarcoma (sp?) that would 
cause the lymph nodes  to  swell.  Well, i am starting to get pretty worried.  In 
10 days, Baby is now  showing signs of possible pain in the abdomin area and 
has trouble getting in her hammock, getting out of her sleeping hole under the 
counter, and refuses to stand on her back legs for her treats.  It seems like the 
helibactor treatment is not working and the one medicine Baby is now chocking 
herself on, gagging, and foaming severely at the mouth.  As of this morning I 
couldn't even get 1/3 of the dose in her, so I skipped her dose tonight until I talk 
to the vet tomorrow.  We are now noticing the lymph nodes in the neck are 
protruding also.  >>  

My ferret, Ryker, has every lymph gland in his body swollen.  My vet said it 
sure looked like lympho to her, but we did a biopsy.  Every gland has huge 
masses of fat on them.  He also seems to be in a little pain...since the lymph 
glands inside his body are probably also full of fat, it's probably uncomfortable 
for them to move around like they used to.  So long as Ryker can get around 
and play a bit each day, I won't put him to sleep.  When he becomes so obese 
that he can't move around, then I will...or if his discomfort becomes too great.  

It would be a very good idea for you to have a biopsy done on Baby.  It's the 
only way to tell what the problem is.  You may be giving her medication for 
something she doesn't even have....and it's making her life miserable.  

Judy

Date:  Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:47:57 EDT
From:  Kgsalimy@aol.com
Brewers Yeast

showgo@txucom.net wrote:

<<The insulinoma (hind end weakness, stumbling) is the second most serious. 
Take a very serious look at your soup recipe. Take out all sugars... Nutrical, 
Ensure (or any other human supplement drink... they are a poor choice for ferret 
nutrition... most especially insulinoma ferrets), brewer's yeast, etc. Put in a liquid 
vitamin, and an egg yolk (one yolk per day). This gives your ferret what he 
needs, vitamins and animal protein, and leaves out what he doesn't need, sugar 
and milk.>>  

It has always been my understanding that Brewer's Yeast is excellent for ferrets 
with insulinoma ... helps stabilize the blood sugar, so why would you want to 
take it out? It's one of the ingredients in the insulinoma elixir prescribed by my 
vet.  

I do agree with most of the rest ... I'm just curious about the reasoning behind 
removing the Brewer's Yeast. Can you elaborate?  

Kathy <><

*** Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for thereby some have 
entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2 ***

MODERATOR'S NOTE:  I will look in past FAIMLs and come up with a 
reply to this, and produce a file with the past posts relating to it.  Lynn


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