From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 3:38 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #474; Oct. 23, 2000 Hi. I'm resending FAIML #474. Let's hope this looks a little better. I switched an option and apparently it wasn't the right thing to do and I've changed it back. I'm sorry. Thank you to those who sent feedback and please continue to do so if you see any problems. I apologize for a lack of computer savvy on my part, which is probably at the root of some of the problems. Some of it is my software. Thank you. Lynn Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #474; Oct. 23, 2000 There are ten messages in today's list: Surgery and Insulinomia Results requested Pre operation procedure? Itchy ferret insulinoma and heart disease. Condolences for Mary Bandit's adrenal surgery New ADV Message Board CA Bay Area vets Giving Proglycem Brewer's Yeast FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:13:06 -0500 From: "dook dook" Surgery and Insulinomia Results requested Hi, I'm requesting some responses directly to the list. I have a friend who is contemplating surgery for an insulinomic ferret. I would like to have some input of results from those who have had the surgery done. What results did you see? How old was the ferret when the surgery was done? How is the ferret doing now? If bridge crossing involved, how long after surgery? Were there any complications? Thanks. Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:18:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Marc Lavergne" Pre operation procedure? We own a fat female ferret that suffers from mild insulinoma and needs to be operated for an adrenal tumor. She does not take medication for the insulinoma as she eat often enough to control it naturally. We very rarely have to offer her food when her back legs are week. We are switching to a new vet that is located in our town but she is not an expert in ferret medicine that much. What is the safest way to handle the pre- surgery fast? How many hours before surgery do we need to begin fluid therapy (2.5% destrose in 0.45% saline) mentionned in Dr. Purcell book? Do we have to do it? shoudl we start giving her prednisone before her surgery? Please cc me your reply as I do not subscribe to the FAIML. Thanks! Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:06:46 -0400 From: "Eileen Ledbetter" Itchy ferret Hi everyone. I've been a long time lurker. My little Abby was diagnosed with insulinoma last September after a miserable bout with (probable) ECE. Once the diagnosis was made and she was put on Pediapred (.4 ml twice daily) she recovered nicely and has been doing quite well since. There have been days that I never even read the faiml because I didn't want to be depressed - I just wanted to enjoy the good moments we were having. But now I need a little help. Abby is still ok, but she is very elderly - probably 9 years old. (Even if the insulinoma comes to its inevitable conclusion, it may be a toss up between that and old age winning out). Anyway, she also has adrenal involvement. Her tail is bald and her coat is very, very sparse; also her vulva is a little swollen and she is very kissy.. She had her first lupron shot about two weeks ago and I have my fingers crossed that she will grow some fur back - so my first question is - is four weeks about the average time when I should begin to see some results? If after four weeks I don't see anything, should I assume the lupron was a failure or should I stick with it and try another shot in 4 months? Also, Abby seems quite itchy right now - but that started before the lupron. What can I do to make her feel better? Bathing with anything special? A soothing powder? Recommendations will be greatly appreciated. And one last question. I keep hearing about noni juice. What is it supposed to do for them, and if I got some, how much per day would I give her? I would have to syringe it as anything other than Ferretone and her ferret food are "yucky". Thanks for any help. Eileen (and Abby) PS. Sorry if all these questions have been asked before; but like I said, sometimes I don't read the faiml like I should. Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:02:43 EDT From: AFERRETVET@cs.com insulinoma and heart disease. Hi Julie, Sorry to hear that Cokie has both insulinoma and cardiomyopathy. The most common heart problem in ferrets is dilated cardiomyopathy. It will take an ultrasound exam to know for sure what type of heart problem he has. Dilated cardiomyopathy is like a water balloon that has been overfill and stretched out. The heart can not work well when the muscle walls are stretched to far, so it can not pump the blood out of the heart like it should. If it is dilated cardiomyopathy then there are 3 meds that can be used to help control it: 1) Lasix to help with the fluid build up 2)Enacard to help with fluid build up and 3)Digoxin to help the heart pump better. As for insulinoma treatment, Pediapred can cause sodium and fluid retention and hypertension (high blood pressure). This will make the heart problem worse. Proglycem can cause hypotension (low blood pressure). Higher doses of lasix may be needed to help control the fluid retention when you add Pediapred to help treat the insulinoma. Needless to say it will be a balancing act to control both problems at the same time. Good Luck with him, Jerry Murray, DVM. Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:45:47 EDT From: Outlaw50@aol.com Condolences for Mary In a message dated 10/19/00 3:00:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mary Rogers writes: << We had to help Buffy to the bridge Monday. >> Mary, I'm so very, very sorry. It sounds like you did everything possible for Buffy. I know how hard it is to lose the battle. My heart goes out to you. I know it doesn't ease your pain much, but Buffy is happy and healthy now at the Bridge. Judy Please give...the ferret you save may be your own! http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:59:26 EDT From: Cjbandit@aol.com Bandit's adrenal surgery Hi everyone, It's been so long since I posted anything, but I always try to check in to see if perhaps I can help someone else. I have had nothing to report cause my baby Bandit is doing wonderfully well. Just a backdrop of info. Bandit had his left adrenal removed and Dr. Weiss destroyed his right adrenal with cryosurgery. Once I learned through blood work (Tennessee Panel)?? that he showed elevated hormones which were indicative of Adrenal Disease, I knew then I was faced with a big decision. I looked into the Animal Medical Center in Manhattan New York who has an outstanding reputation, and decided to take Bandit there at first. Initially the first symptoms I saw was that he struggled to urinate, I left him over night and luckily he didn't get plugged up. They wanted to do his surgery and stated that they only believe in removing one in a half if their both infected. The reasons being that the right adrenal laying along side the vena cava makes the removal of the right to dangerous. When I asked them about the cryosurgery that Dr. Weiss was doing, the one vet down played his efforts and successes and stated nothing he had done was factual or reported in writing. Initially the vet recommended Lupron for the bladder problem and then wanted to keep in on Lupron instead of doing the surgery. It wasn't until I consulted with two different vets at the hospital and they suggested the surgery. At this point I was more confused then ever, I didn't want to have my baby opened up, what if he didn't withstand the surgery. On the other hand, I knew from all the research I've done here and on other sites that Lupron was a band aid approach to covering up what was really going on in his little body. Besides Bandit was young enough (31/2) yrs to withstand the surgery. The only thing that was troubling me was the fact that they would only remove one in a half adrenals, I know countless people that say after having one removed usually within a year or so they have to have the other removed. I also read several veterinarian reports documenting that the adrenal gland can regenerate, so debulking is usually only a short term solution. This is what led me to Dr. Weiss the only vet that I know who performs cryosurgery and who believes a ferret can live with no adrenals. Well, Bandit is one of those cases, the surgery went well and I check his sodium/potassium levels regularly to see if he needs hormone replacements. It's been about 6 months since his surgery and he's never needed hormone replacements and he's never been healthier. Talk about new founded energy, it's like having a new ferret. Even before I recognized his Adrenal Disease I never knew him to be so full of life as he is now. I asked Dr. Weiss how it is that Bandit can survive w/o hormone replacement and his answer was that perhaps the hormone are produced else where too. Other vets seem to agree or think maybe some ectopic tissue is lingering somewhere. Anyway the point of this long drawn out story is that I really believe in the removal of both adrenals (even if hormone replacement is necessary) and I also believe cryosurgery is superior to debulking of the adrenals. Take Care Christina Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:21:37 EDT From: Outlaw50@aol.com New ADV Message Board It is with extreme heartfelt gratitude to Mike Janke and Kat Parsons that I am announcing that there is now an Aleutian Disease Message Board on White Russian's ADV Web Page. http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html I have been asked so many questions via private E-mail and, while I'm more than happy to answer them, I believe it would be beneficial to ask questions on a board where everyone can comment and see the answers. I hope it will be a place where people can feel free to ask questions without feeling "stupid", make comments without being ridiculed, and just generally express whatever they want to regarding Aleutian Disease. Even flames are welcome because they let me know how people feel and what I could be doing better! I will be inviting a few ADV knowledgeable vets to visit the board, but those vets that do know most about Aleutian Disease are also very, very busy...so we'll see. If no vets visit the board and questions are asked that I can't answer, I will forward them to the vets I've been in contact with and post their replies, if any. Don't forget...if you haven't already signed the guest book, please do so! My former boss hasn't sent the check for research yet, so there's still time! Also, if you visited the site before the new "Faces of ADV" page was up, please stop in again. There are so many beautiful fur kids on it. Thank you to all those ferret moms and dads that generously shared pictures of their babies. Feel free to visit often, or just bookmark the board for future reference. I hope to *see* you there. Judy Please give...the ferret you save may be your own! http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:25:35 -0700 From: Anonymous CA Bay Area vets Just catching up on emails, and I saw the request for SF area vet info. Hope this helps! The vet I take my guys to is in Dr. Kenton Taylor at Miramonte Veterinary Hospital in Mountain View. 650 962 8338. He doesn't do the surgeries himself, so he brings in a surgeon. They removed Luz's left adrenal removed last year, and he did wonderfully! He recovered very quickly, and the hair he had begun to lose came back fairly quickly. Sneaky is our insulinoma patient -- we've been watching her glucose and insulin levels quite carefully the last few weeks, and just started her on prednisone this week. Knowledgeable and thorough, and always makes time to answer your questions. And believe me, I have them, with my stacks of ferret-related veterinary texts! There's also a vet who used to work at that same practice named Dr. Beyerinck (sp?). I think he went to Sunset Animal Hospital in SF. He and Dr. Taylor both worked with one of my ferrets a few years ago who, sadly, had so many things going on inside him that there wasn't a lot that could be done (pancreatic exocrine carcinoma with metastasis to liver, enlarged adrenal, cystic kidney...). Still, he was great in trying to research what medical treatments might be feasible, as well as in looking up some alternative treatments. I fully trust my weasels with either of these doctors. Good luck, and email me if you have any questions! - Alyssa Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:52:15 EDT From: Outlaw50@aol.com Brewer's Yeast In a message dated 10/14/00 4:04:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << VET POSTS; BREWERS YEAST and CHROMIUM: I'm putting a file together of FAIML posts (and the dates posted) about this subject so when the question comes up I can send it to the poster. The file will contain Dr. Murray's posts, a message about this from Dr. Purcell, who came to agree with Dr. Murray after doing some research, and other folks' points of view as well. Many of you have commented and there are still differing views on the issue, which will be represented in the file, but papers have been referenced and those references will be included so people can go to the source if they desire. I've been meaning to do this and Dr. Murray, in the meantime, has been wonderfully patient in reposting answers about this. Thank you for your invaluable contributions Dr. Murray! It is so wonderful to have vets dedicated to ferrets on the list. >> Mary & Eric of Modern Ferret posted to the apf that they are putting an article written by Dr. Murray into the upcoming issue of Modern Ferret regarding this. I think it would be a great article to watch for. Judy Please give...the ferret you save may be your own! http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html ----------------------- End of FAIML #474 ------------------------