From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 5:03 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@uswest.net Subject: FAIML #476; Oct. 27, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #476; Oct. 27, 2000 There are nine messages in today's list: Zackari Help with Pred Proglycem use Correlation Between Adrenal and Insulinoma? Update on Konrad Lupron Chuki and ECE Need feces from ECE Ferrets (Bruce Williams, DVM) CA Bay Area vets FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:35:21 -0400 From: "keclark" Subject: Zackari Hello to allthe ferret lovers. Here is a up date on Zackari. My almost 7, Marshall, neutered to young, double adrenal surgery w/ adenocarcinoma, sweet baby. He hasn't been eating very well for the past three weeks. I've bought differen bags of food to try. He was losing weight and losing some hair on his feet. Off to the vet we went last Wednesday. Thursday we had a ultrasound at this huge treatment center (we are so lucky) here in Tampa. The found a small amount of fluid in his abdomenal area, which isn't good. Also his prostate is enlarged to medium sized, not huge but a warning. So between his team of three vets & I we have decided to start him on Lupron shots and prednisone. We go today at 2:00. Any info you can send me good and bad, please feel free. I'm not reading good things about Lupron on the internet. So it's a little scarry. Also I didn't think I worked on carsinoma's. But the vets were willing to give it a try. I've just read Bob Church's notes again and he doen't see any results form any chemical treatment we give these little guys. We tried him on A/D mixed with Nutracal. No way would he eat that stuff, spit every bit out. I'm glad he takes his medication better than that.  My heart goes out to all those sick babies out there and the humans that are dedicated to making their life easier. Nothing can take thehurt away from losing these littleguys, except to know they are not in pain any longer. Love to all from Kathy & Zackari Date sent: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:05:32 -0700 From: "Christine Bertch" Subject: Help with Pred Hello All, I would like some advice...my Benji is about 7.5 years old and has been diagnosed with insulinoma for nearly a year and a half. He's almost 3 lbs. and he is currently on .35cc of Pred twice daily. Lately he has seemed more lethargic than usual--he just wants to go back to sleep right after his meals. I do not notice any hind end weakness and he has never had a seizure to my knowledge. His blood sugar has always stayed at the borderline--80. My question is, I have read that pred can cause lethargy, but I haven't increased the dose recently and he is not on a very high dose, so should I decrease the pred? On the other hand, this lack of energy could be due to hypoglycemia, so should I increase the pred? Taking him to the vet to get a blood sugar reading is always extremely stressful for him and I try to do it as little as possible. My guess is that his blood sugar has not dropped--he was checked less than a month ago. Assuming that his blood sugar is the same, what should I do (and I realize that any change would be done slowly and with closer monitoring of his blood sugar level)? I want to help him feel as good as possible for however much time he has... Thanks, Christine and Benji *Rikki* and *Missy* in spirit Date sent: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kelly Cameron" Subject: Proglycem use Hi, I posted this on the FML, but thought I would ask here also. Does anyone know if giving proglycem to an elderly ferret with insulinoma and renal disease will have any adverse effects? She is at the top end of the pred dosage and we would like to add proglycem to see if it would help her, but she also has renal failure and has been receiving sub-q fluids (her BUN is coming down so they have been helpful). Proglycem apparently is a diuretic, so I was just wondering if that would cause problems with her already ailing kidneys? Thanks for your help and condolences to those who have lost their dear loved ones. Julie Date sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:47:10 +0100 From: Melissa.Sullivan@CliffordChance.com Subject: Correlation Between Adrenal and Insulinoma? I do hope you will forgive my perpetual ignorance. I wrote a while ago with questions on adrenal disease. Now, on to insulinoma. I often read posts concerning ferrets with simultaneous occurrence of adrenal disease and insulinoma. Is there some sort of correlation between the two? Fee (on of my ferrets) successfully had his left adrenal removed about a month ago and has recovered completely. I am now paranoid that he will develop insulinoma. Other than it being a common disease, should I be particularly sensitive to insulinoma in an adrenal ferret? Thanks for your patience and help! ************************************************************ This message and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please telephone or email the sender and delete this message and any attachment from your system. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy this message or attachment or disclose the contents to any other person. For further information about Clifford Chance please see our website at http://www.cliffordchance.com or refer to any Clifford Chance office. Date sent: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:37:57 -0400 From: "Sarah Manningsmith" Subject: Upadate on Konrad Hi, It's been a while, but I have been reading. Konrad's been on Lupron for about five months now; Pred for about three months and Pryglocem for about two months. Unfortunately, we're up to the 6ml of the Pryglocem twice a day; Date sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:30:34 -0600 From: "Federici, Paula" Subject: Lupron I presently have 2 ferrets on Lupron. I opted for the 7 month version. It took approximately 4 weeks to see any difference and then WHAM!, overnight they seemed to grow the thickest hair imaginable. Both are dooking, dancing and playing like idiots. I personally will not hesitate to use Lupron on any ferret who is not a candidate for surgery. Paula Federici and the fuzzy mafia PF Ferrets Rescue and Shelter Date sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:46:38 -0700 From: "Glenn Johnson" Subject: Chuki and ECE Ferret Lovers, We need advice from any of you that have been through ECE. My Chuki, a coming up on eight year old male who also has insulinoma (but well controlled) picked up ECE from a kit that was brought to our house. I noticed the kit had diarrhea and never let Chuki even in the same room. We cleaned the area where the kit had been with a lysol mix, but nonetheless Chuki showed up with it two days later. Shows how horribly contagious this stuff is. But to the point, Chuki's maintaining his weight, is active and reasonably happy, but he's surviving mostly on gerber's chicken and ringers lactate (orally). He is in the eight week of diarrhea, we have tried both Amforal and Immodium AD which seems to help only a little. The question for you who have been there, have you ever seen the diarrhea go on this long, and do you know of anything else that we should be trying? Bless our Ferrets, Glenn and Chuki Date sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:34:42 -0500 From: "Marge Szelmeczka" Subject: Cross post from FML, From: "Williams, Bruce Subject: Need feces from ECE ferrets Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:22:00 -0400 From: "Williams, Bruce" Subject: Need feces from ECE ferrets To our friends on the FML: As part of the ongoing research into ferret coronavirus - following our recent publication in the Journal of the AVMA (Williams BH, Kiupel M, West KH, Raymond JT, Grant CK, Glickman LT: Coronavirus-associated epizootic catarrhal enteritis in ferrets. August 15, 2000) - we are looking for some fresh material to conduct additional molecular studies. We are attempting to isolate viral material which may yield sufficient genetic information to allow development of diagnostic tests and possible even a recombinant vaccine. But we can't proceed without new virus-laden material. What we need is fresh frozen feces from ECE outbreaks. We need feces taken very soon after ferrets break with disease - preferably in the first few days of infection, which the feces is still green mad mucousy. These feces generally have the highest concentration of virus particles, and yield the best probability of isolating virus material. A diagnosis of ECE does not have to be confirmed by your vet - if you think you have it, freeze those feces and send them! Feces should be placed in a plastic bag or pill bottle and hard frozen, and require overnight shipping. Thawing of the samples decreases the possibility of being able to recover viral material. Samples should be sent to Dr. Kiupel at the following address. Please notify him by email at tomcat@purdue.edu or by fax prior to shipping and try not to ship over the weekend (that will guarantee thawing and a diminished return). Please, no samples after 31 December 2000! Dr. med. vet. M. Kiupel, MS, DACVP Purdue University Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory West-Lafayette IN 47907 USA Tel.: ** 765 494 9443 Fax.: ** 765 494 9181 With kindest regards, Bruce Williams, DVM Date sent: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:18:42 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: CA Bay Area vets Just catching up on emails, and I saw the request for SF area vet info. Hope this helps! The vet I take my guys to is in Dr. Kenton Taylor at Miramonte Veterinary Hospital in Mountain View. 650 962 8338. He doesn't do the surgeries himself, so he brings in a surgeon. They removed Luz's left adrenal removed last year, and he did wonderfully! He recovered very quickly, and the hair he had begun to lose came back fairly quickly. Sneaky is our insulinoma patient -- we've been watching her glucose and insulin levels quite carefully the last few weeks, and just started her on prednisone this week. Knowledgeable and thorough, and always makes time to answer your questions. And believe me, I have them, with my stacks of ferret-related veterinary texts! There's also a vet who used to work at that same practice named Dr. Beyerinck (sp?). I think he went to Sunset Animal Hospital in SF. He and Dr. Taylor both worked with one of my ferrets a few years ago who, sadly, had so many things going on inside him that there wasn't a lot that could be done (pancreatic exocrine carcinoma with metastasis to liver, enlarged adrenal, cystic kidney...). Still, he was great in trying to research what medical treatments might be feasible, as well as in looking up some alternative treatments. I fully trust my weasels with either of these doctors. Good luck, and email me if you have any questions! - Alyssa ---------------------- End of FAIML #476 ------------------------