From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 10:36 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@u.washington.edu Subject: FAIML #477; Oct. 31, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #477; Oct. 31, 2000 There are ten messages in today's list: Itchy ferret and adrenial test question Something to share regarding adrenal disease Rat tail Insulinoma questions Low blood sugar reading without insulinoma Lupron and Pred Lupron Lupron/Bob C. Feces Needed for ECE Study Update: CA Bay Area vets FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and there is a FAIML album featuring pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET

in the body of the email. Date sent: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:35:07 EST From: Cnm419@aol.com Subject: Itchy ferret and adrenial test question Is excessive scratching a early sign of adrenial? I thought I had read this somewhere and now I can't find it (naturally). My Butch (3yrs, MF, male)is scratching himself to death. Nothing has changed in the house as far as diet, laundry, etc. It has been going on about 5 weeks now and I swear he's not sleeping more than 1 hour without getting up and scratching. I bathed him last week with a very mild ferret shampoo and it seemed to help but now I have found two scabed over little spots on him. We are going to the vet on Saturday the 11th. My second question concerns testing for adrenial. Butch also had a terrible case of rat tail. For about 4 weeks all I saw was blackheads and a naked tail! I took him to the vet and got a medicated shampoo to clear up his tail and now he has a full tail of fur! The vet did suggest we check him out for possible adrenial (sp). He mentioned blood work, ultrasound, and a couple of other things. To be honest my mind wasn't comprehending what he was saying at that time. So what are the different test options we would have and is one better than the other. I'm not one for opening the fuzzy up to see what's going on in there without a real good reason. Any suggestions would be helpful since I feel a little confused right now. Butch and Maggie are my first fuzzies and they've only lived with me for 20 months & I want them with me for a long time to come! Thanks again for your help! Connie, Butch, and Maggie Date sent: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:46:20 EST From: Outlaw50@aol.com Subject: Something to share regarding adrenal disease I just wanted to share something Bob Church told me that he noticed when doing necropsies on ferrets. He found that adrenal ferrets were 8 times more likely to have "hairballs" found on necropsy. He thinks this is probably due to their grooming themselves while losing fur. His suggestion is to give liberal doses of hairball treatment several times a week to adrenal ferrets. Judy Please give to Aleutian Disease research...the ferret you save may be your own! http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html Date sent: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:42:07 EST From: Outlaw50@aol.com Subject: Rat tail In a message dated 10/25/00 12:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << My vet who is knowledgeable about ferrets said that thinning hair on tails with "blackheads" is a seasonal change and not adrenal disease. The blackheads are really new hairs ready to grown, >> This is sort of true, (blackheads are from oil in pores) but many people have found that "rat tail" often is an early sign of insulinoma. Most of my ferrets have never had rat tail. Those that have, have almost all gone on to become adrenal. I don't think it's a "given" that rat tail is an early indicator of adrenal disease, but I would certainly keep a close eye on a ferret that had rat tail every year. << My Farley now has insulinoma in addition to his adrenal disease. He had adrenal surgery in the spring and has had four monthly shots of Lupron with no improvement.>> I've had my Ryker on the monthly shots for 5 months. He is just now showing a bit less aggression, but he hasn't had any fur grow back. I have heard that the monthly shots don't always work as well as the 4 month depot. White Russian had the 4 month depot about 5-6 weeks ago, and the aggression is completely gone. If you can possibly afford the expense, I'd definitely try the 4 month depot. Judy Please give to Aleutian Disease research...the ferret you save may be your own! http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html Date sent: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:19:57 EST From: Outlaw50@aol.com Subject: Insulinoma questions In a message dated 10/25/00 12:25:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << Hello all. I have not posted in a while but I have been reading. My thoughts are with Buffy and her owners. I have a few problems of my own. My Keegan who is 5 this month has Insulinoma. She had the surgery in March. My vet, who is considered an expert in our area, told me you can usually get about a year out of a ferret after the surgery. Her blood sugar has been steady in the high 80's. Her last check on 10/16 was 89.4. I took her in for shots on 10/19. I told the vet that day that she has been licking her chops for a couple of days. I think thats what she is doing. The vet told me not to do anything and see if it goes away in a couple of weeks. Does anyone know what this means. She also threw up Sunday morning - what looked like food? I am very nervous. How do I know when she is slowing down? She has been through soooooo much I just can't think of it being her time right now. Even though realistically I know it's close. >> The only good advice I have for you is to start her on Bob C's chicken gravy. It will help her tremendously. I know of 2 ferrets that lived over two years after surgery on the gravy. Is she on pred? If not, you may want to ask your vet about a minimal dose. The "licking her chops" can be due to nausea or the insulinoma. Her blood glucose isn't all that low, though. Please try the gravy and see if that helps. http://www.trifl.org/makingravy.html The gravy will also make a ferret's coat nicer and help stop itching. This gravy has helped many, many ferrets live quality lives even with insulinoma. Just be sure to keep the Nutrical and honey in...Dr. Weiss has said the extremely high protein content balances the recipe...the "sugar" won't hurt your girl. Judy Please give...the ferret you save may be your own! http://www.geocities.com/russiansmom/index.html Date sent: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:20:51 EST From: Cjbandit@aol.com Subject: Low blood sugar reading without insulinoma Hi Gayle, When did you first find out your little guy had insulinoma?? Was it learned after the surgery?? The only reason I ask is because my baby Bandit had his blood sugar checked twice within two months and the reading was low. I was not convinced that he had insulinoma because he was not eating well due to his adrenal problems at the time. Anyway shortly after the readings Bandit had Adrenal Surgery and Dr. Weiss checked his pancreas during the surgery, surprisingly enough they were fine. I never did have to treat Bandit for insulinoma, so far so good anyway. I always supplement Bandits science food diet with Chicken or Turkey Babyfood with a few drops of linatone drops. I really swear by this formula. Try it if your not already. Good Luck and take care of your baby, Christina Date sent: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:30:25 EDT From: EquineAmy@aol.com Subject: Lupron and Pred Hi, this is in response to two emails. First - Lupron: My Connor had three one month shots of Lupron in June, July and August of 1999. He was one and a half years old with a huge left sided tumor. Surgery was not done for various reasons - primarily becasue there was no way that I was able to pay for it. Nontheless, it is now almost November of 2000 and we are still doing EXTREMELY well - no signs of anything wrong - he is the most happy go lucky ferret I have ever seen with a huge love of life. I knwo results vary, but in my case lupron was a very good choice so far. Now - pred: My winnie is on pediapred. She would get very lethargic also - after talking to vets and everyone on this list - I very gradually lessened her dose - it was the best thing. She actually does more than sleep and eat now. We play and dance and dook and everything. Now you realize I am no where near a vet, so don't lower any doses on my account - but with winnie, I believe that I was giving her too much and that was causing her lethargy. Good luck to everyone with everything and if you want to know more - I was tryhing to be very brief - write me and I will respond. Amy, WInnie, Chloe and Connor Date sent: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:32:08 EST From: Cjbandit@aol.com Subject: Lupron Hi Kathy I think I heard that Lupron will help shrink the prostate, I know when Bandit had problems urinating Lupron was used to shrink his prostate. Well, it worked because shortly after Bandit didn't seem to be straining as much to go and it's real important that he didn't get plugged up. Perhaps it's the adrenal problem that's causing his prostate to be slightly enlarged. I always supplement Bandit's Hill Science Diet with Chicken or Turkey baby food (2x) a day with drops of linatone added to it. I take about a tablespoon and 1/2 and add a little water and heat it then add the drops of linatone. Try it with Zachary it will be a great protein snack and help build him up. Hang in there, Take Care Christina & Bandit Date sent: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:45:52 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Lupron/Bob C. >From: "keclark" >Subject: Zackari > >Any info you can send me good and bad, please feel free. I'm not reading good >things about Lupron on the internet. So it's a little scarry. Also I didn't think I >worked on carsinoma's. But the vets were willing to give it a try. I've just read >Bob Church's notes again and he doen't see any results form any chemical >treatment we give these little guys. Personally, I have not heard any bad things about Lupron use in ferrets. Don't know about its use in humans. And I'm curious about Bob Church's comments about no results from any chemical treatment. There are probably hundreds of people using Lupron to treate adrenal disease with excellent results, so I'd like to know exactly what Bob is talking about, or if his info has been interpreted correctly. Granted, Lupron is not a cure, but when surgery is not an option, it's a good choice of treatment. Certainly better than doing nothing. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * South Florida Ferret Help Line, 305-752-7040 * * Website: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc Date sent: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:45:34 EDT From: OutThink@aol.com Subject: Feces Needed for ECE Study I know this is supposed to be serious list but I must confess that the first word entering my mind after reading this post was "Oh, poop-cicles". <<<< What we need is fresh frozen feces from ECE outbreaks. We need feces taken very soon after ferrets break with disease - preferably in the first few days of infection, which the feces is still green mad mucousy. These feces generally have the highest concentration of virus particles, and yield the best probability of isolating virus material. A diagnosis of ECE does not have to be confirmed by your vet - if you think you have it, freeze those feces and send them! >>>>> It's been a long week can you tell? Roberta with Houdini (adrenal), Bandit, Millhouse, Snowy, Tank (adrenal/insulinoma), Casper, and Petey (adrenal/insulinoma) Date:sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:13:23 EDT From: Anonymous Subject: Update: CA Bay Area vets I found one in Fremont!!!! Can you believe it??? I called the one of the vets that you referred me to and they suggested Fremont Animal Hospital right here in Fremont. I took Bandit there last night (which is about 5 minutes from my house) He is doing great!!! He has gained weight since the surgery and she (Dr. Malisha A. Small) started him on Pred. I really wanted to get the Lupron shot since his hair is still not rowing back but she said to wait a week and see if his itchiness stops on the pred and if that doesn't she would order the Lupron (this is something they dont keep in stock) She said that sometimes and not very often the Pred will help with the itchiness and since this is the most cost effective way we should try it first. The exam and the Pred (and I was there for about an hour talking with her) was only $44.00. So she is very reasonable. She is also going to get me the pros and cons on Lupron to decide if this is something I really want to do. She was very good about explaining things to me and I felt very comfortable talking with her. So if anyone else is in Fremont looking for a vet I would recommend her. Thanks for all your help and I will keep you updated on Bandits progress. Thanks again, Stacy ---------------------- End of FAIML #477------------------------