From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 4:37 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #490; Dec. 15, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #490; Dec. 15, 2000 There are seven messages in today's list: Diabetes following surgery Hermangiosarcoma-Jayal keeping geriatric ferrets entertained good treats Ferret notecards "On the Lighter Side" It's a cold, cold day here at FNW FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading and send to . Remember: the more specific you can be in your subject heading the greater the chance someone will be able to find your important info when searching the archives. URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I get it; then I'll include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send new subscribers the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam has also compiled excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Plus, it comes out daily. I encourage people to cross post on the FML and FAIML to get the most possible exposure and feedback. Visit FERRET CENTRAL website (you can find its address in the paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:07:51 EST From: LDarkes@aol.com Subject: Diabetes following surgery Hello all, I've sent this post to Dr. Williams directly, but was hoping you guys who may have experienced this may have some advice to share. Mandy, my 6 year old female had surgery this past Monday (12/11) at which time her left adrenal gland was removed as well as a nodule from her pancreas. Her glucose level prior to surgery was 34 and following surgery was over 400. Dr. Welborn had her on dextrose during surgery so this wasn't too surprising. However I am concerned, as we checked her again on Tuesday and it was up to 561. We are hoping that it will go down on its own however she is still showing signs of elevated blood sugar ( excessive thirst and urination, and wobbly walking). Bandit had experienced these symptoms a couple years ago in reaction to pred. use. Fortunately, his blood sugar came down on its own and actually stabilized to allow him to be medication free for about six months. Anyway, my questions are do you know how long her glucose lever should take to come down on its own, if its going to and what I should suggest to my vet if it seems like this is not going to resolve on its own? I am concerned about potential for permanent problems by waiting too long. Other than this, her recovery from surgery seems to be going well. Although her energy level is very low, and she mostly sleeps, she is alert when awake, uses the litter box fine and seems to rest comfortably. She doesn't eat on her own at all, but she wasn't before surgery either. I had been hand (syringe) feeding her chicken gravy; however since her glucose is elevated I've been feeding chicken baby food due to the sugars in the gravy, just in case it makes a difference. Thank you for any thoughts you may have. I appreciate it. Lucie & Jack with Mandrake, Merlin, Myst, Jessie and Sarah Always missing Bandit, Gandalf, Jasmine and Aislyn Date sent: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:08:45 EST From: SBrown9530@aol.com Subject: Hermangiosarcoma-Jay On Monday, 12-11 I lost Jay, a 2 year, 4 month old little boy to a Hermangiosarcoma, which according to the medical dictionary is a malignant tumor of vascular tissue; also called angiosarcoma. Jay was running around, playing, jumping and bouncing on his brothers and sisters the night before. The next AM I let everyone out and noticed Jay was still in the hammie, unusual for him, as he was usually the first one out. After looking at him, I could tell by his eyes he felt awful, took him out and he couldn't walk and whimpered. Immediately called the vet and took him in. The vet was unable to draw blood from either his neck or leg, wanted me to leave him for steriods, sub-qs and to warm him up before trying to draw blood for a CBC. I was to call in 1 hour, and when I did, Jay had already passed away. The vet wanted to do a necropsy, which I watched. As soon as Jay's abdomen was opened it was full of blood, the vet stating that's why he was unable to draw blood. The tumor was about the size of a walnut and coming off the liver like another growth. Vet said tumor had ruptured and Jay bled to death. Dr. Murray or anyone, could this have been diagnosed or prevented? Jay was a rescue and never had a sick day in his short little life, never slowed down for a min. Thanks in advance, Sandi Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:24:11 -0800 From: "E. Rain" Subject: keeping geriatric ferrets entertained Any great ideas for new activities for a ferret who's no longer able to run jump and play? Lemke has real trouble walking many days, but still lot's of interest in life. he likes to roll around in a gift basket filled with shredded paper & stash HIS scrunchy phone cord under my pillows, but we need some new stimuli. he's feeling a little better today & trying to overexert himself... Eden - I like being woken up at 5am to play much more than I like being woken up at 5 am because he's having arrythmia, but really I'd just rather sleep ;-> ______________________________________________________ WARNING: Dates on the calendar are closer than they appear! Eden Rain raghead@liripipe.com Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 19:04:54 -0500 From: "Moxie" Subject: good treats To the person looking for a healthy treat for his ferrets. I don't buy any ferret treats. Look at the ingredients. All have either molasses, corn syrup, corn, etc., which are no good. Especially for insulinomic ferrets. Ferrets don't need sugar. I don't even give raisins. You can try my little "trick." Chance eats a combination of 8 in 1 Ultimate and Totally Ferret. For his treat he gets a piece of another ferret food that he doesn't eat regularly, like Zupreem or that new one the Ferret Store came out with. I tell him they are cookies. I have him totally conned that he even begs for them. And Chance wouldn't even touch either of those foods when offered as regular food. Another treat he gets maybe once a week is a cheerio type cereal with no added sugar which is found in either the organic or diet section of the supermarket. When I have a banana, I give Chance a tiny piece for a treat. I know we are all concerned with our ferrets' diets, especially as they age and develop disease. Holiday wishes, Moxie and Chance Date sent: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 00:08:46 EST From: GRFerrets@aol.com Subject: Ferret notecards Hi, I hope no one minds my posting this, but I'm trying to pay for a recent adrenal/insulinoma surgery as well as routine physicals, rabies shots, and bloodwork that all came at once and is really hurting the budget. Please check out the following items on eBay: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw- cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&user id=kimvndlaan&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 Thank you!!! Kim Date sent: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 18:46:36 EST From: JANETDEBRA@cs.com Subject: "On the Lighter Side" Hopefully, you can post this. It was in the last issue of FANON with Author Unknown. Sometimes we just need a good laugh and this gave a lot of them to me. HOW TO GIVE A FERRET A PILL 1. Pick ferret up and cradle it in the crook of your left arm as if holding a baby. Position the right forefinger and thumb on either side of the ferret's mouth and gently apply pressure to cheeks while holding pill in right hand. As ferret opens mouth, pop pill into mouth. Allow ferret to close mouth and swallow. 2. Retrieve pill from floor and ferret from behind sofa. Cradle ferret in left arm and repeat process. 3. Retrieve ferret from bedroom and throw soggy pill away. 4. Take new pill from foil wrap, cradle ferret in left arm holding front paws tightly with left hand. Force jaws open and push pill to back of moth with right forefinger. Hold mouth shut for a count of ten. 5. Retrieve pill from goldfish bowl and ferret from top of wardrobe. Call spouse from garden. 6. Kneel on floor with ferret wedged firmly between knees, hold front and rear paws. Ignore low growls emitted by ferret. Get spouse to hold head firmly with one hand while forcing wooden ruler into mouth. Drop pill down ruler and rub ferret's throat vigorously. 7. Retrieve ferret from curtain rail, get another pill from foil wrap. Make note to buy new ruler and repair curtains. Carefully sweep shattered figurines and vases from hearth and set to one side for gluing later. 8. Wrap ferret in large towel and get spouse to lie on ferret with head just visible from below armpit. Put pill in end of drinking straw, force mouth open with pencil and blow down drinking straw. 9. Check label to make sure pill not harmful to humans, drink glass of water to take taste away. Apply Band-Aid to spouse "s forearm and remove blood from carpet with cold water and soap 10. Retrieve ferret from neighbor's shed. Get another pill. Place ferret in cupboard and close door onto neck to leave head showing. Force month open with dessert spoon. Flick pill down throat with elastic band. 11. Fetch screwdriver from garage and put cupboard door back on hinges. Apply cold compress to cheek and check records for date of last tetanus jab. Throw t-shirt away and fetch new one from bedroom. 12. Ring fire brigade to retrieve ferret from tree across the road. Apologize to neighbor who crashed into fence while swerving to avoid ferret. Take last pill from foil wrap. 13. Tie ferret's front paws to rear paws with garden twine and bind tightly to leg of dining table. Find heavy duty pruning gloves from shed. Push pill into mouth followed by large piece of fillet steak. Hold head vertical and pour 2 pints of water down throat to wash pill down. 14. Get spouse to drive you to the emergency room, sit quietly while doctor stitches fingers and forearm and removes pill remnants from right eye. Call furniture shop on way home to order new table. How true it is. Janet Date sent: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:08:36 -0800 From: "Edward Lipinski" Subject: It's a cold, cold day here at FNW Brrrrrrr. It's really cold tonight: my thermometer reads 32 F and the water in the outside bird bath is top crusted with ice. The temp in the basement ferretarium is 40 F and all the fuzzies here at FNW are now curled up in their warm clothes with their stomachs full of steaming warm ferret soup. It's really a joy to watch them daintly lap up their soup. Their eyes squint nearly closed as they lap up the soup and strangely enough tiny tears form in the "corners" of their eyes as they hover over the tuna fish can gulping steaming soup. I am so glad that on these cold nights that they can go to sleep with their tummies full and warm. I know they will sleep well, especially one of the 10 year old fuzzies who looks forward every day to her ration of ferret soup. By midday tomorrow all of their soup will be gone and they will then munch on their kibbled ferret food as much as they want. Earlier while the soup was being cooked I gave them their LUMPSCHEWS that were made the previous day (in the form of twirls of LUMPS-cooked rawhide) and noted that they exercised their carnasial teeth chewing of chunks of the LUMPSCHEWS, just like a dog or other carnivore would chew meat off the end of a bone. If one listened closely the sound of their chewing would be audible. I suppose this is really good exercise for their teeth and in addition it may play an important part in keeping their back teeth clean of tartar. It's too bad now that the sales are off on the Thanksgiving turkeys, because they really go for briefly cooked turkey chunks. And the turkey (on sale) is really economical at 27 cents a pound. Boo hoo, now the prices have gone up and we'll have to wait for the Christmas turkey sales. For you information and if you would care to try it too, I buy the largest frozen turkeys I can find at the low cost of 27 cents/lb. Then I ask the meat cutter to cut up the frozen turkey into fist-sized chunks on the meat department's bandsaw, bring the frozen chunks home and store the ones I don't immediately use in my freezer for later use. I cook the required amount of turkey chunks in my 6-quart pressure cooker, bones included, in iodized salted water just long enough to hopefully kill most of the surface bacteria, and then offer them while still warm (and bloody juicy inside) to the fuzzies. It is really amazing to examine the turkey neck vertebrae afterwards and see that somehow they are able to chew totally clean the meat off these vertebrae. The cleaned turkey bones I gather from their cages and cook them in my pressure cooker for about 1/2 hour until they are softened and can be crushed in my fingers. These cooked turkey (chicken bones too) are then ground in my blender in a mixture of water, yoghurt, brewers yeast and left-overs from our meal of yesterday, sometimes with meat debris from the local supermarket meat department, and then store them in my freezer for later addition to their ferret soup. There ain't much that goes to waste here at FNW let me tell you. Cooked oatmeal and four fresh eggs are cooked and blended with their soup in the blender with the amazing result that their tuna fish cans are licked completely clean. Before I did this, they would consume all the liquid and leave most of the fibre of the cooked vegetables in their cans. Now they consume everything and their fecal boluses are quite large and firm, making pickup cleaning relatively easy. I can only assume that the vegies act to scour their intestines very clean (just like ours are when we eat vegies). It may be of interest to note that here at FNW we have never had a case of epizootic catarrahl enteritis (the dreaded green slime characteristic of ECE), no matter how many ferrets come into our shelter in various stages of malnutrition, various ages and some of them showing symptoms of possible cancers. Edward Lipinski Ferret Endowment for Research, Rehabilitation, Education & Training Society, North West. MODERATOR'S NOTE: I deleted a challenge to readers by Ed to debate his premise that ECE is not a contagious, viral disease. It is contagious and I don't want to risk anyone misunderstanding that. Ed, I encourage you to read Pam Greene's ECE FAQ. Information on where to get it is in the opening paragraphs of this list. Lynn ---------------------- End of FAIML #490 ------------------------