From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 3:16 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #491; Dec. 21, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #491; Dec. 21, 2000 There are eight messages in today's list: need additional info on atypical adrenal hair loss NEED HELP SICK FERRET what should i expect? hemangiosarcomas Reply Jay Another good-bye too soon... Remembering Mandrake... meesh: Prostatic Disease Article FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading and send to . Remember: the more specific you can be in your subject heading the greater the chance someone will be able to find your important info when searching the archives. URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I get it; then I'll include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send new subscribers the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam has also compiled excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Plus, it comes out daily. I encourage people to cross post on the FML and FAIML to get the most possible exposure and feedback. Visit FERRET CENTRAL website (you can find its address in the paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:21:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Laura Grant" Subject: need additional info on atypical adrenal hair loss Hi! I posted a couple of weeks ago about my 3 1/2 yr. old ferret Clint whom we suspect has adrenal disease. I found a vet here in Oklahoma City that has done numerous surgeries and has seen ferrets for over 20 yrs. He is very knowledgeable about ferrets, and stays up with ferret health topics, but he said he has never seen an adrenal ferret with the type of hair loss Clint has, and is hesitant to operate - afraid it might be unnecessary or too early in the disease to tell which gland is affected. (He usually diagnoses and treats adrenals based on presenting symptoms.) All of the adrenal ferrets he has seen have had the typical hair loss starting at the base of the tail and progressing upward. Clint's hair loss is on his belly and right side, behind the right ear, between the "shoulder blades", and on his toes. His tail is fine, especially the base! He does present with other symptoms I've mentioned before - sexual behavior towards Sophie, ferret #3 in the pecking order, some lethargy, frequent urination and not much urine each time (urine has been checked for stones - negative). Guess I am just wanting reassurance that to go ahead with surgery is the right thing? Or should he have the Tennessee panel done before, just to make sure? My vet is willing to do whatever we decide, so we want to make the best decision for Clint. I'd appreciate any input from Dr. Williams, other vets, or ferret owners who have experienced such atypical hair loss as Clint has. Thanks for your help! Laura Arnold, Clint, and Sophie Date sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:20:17 -0500 From: "Felty" Subject: NEED HELP SICK FERRET Hello, Can you give me somewhere to contact for help.I have a ferret with LYPHOPLASMACYTIC ENTERITIS. My vet is about used all his resoures and my boy is not getting better.I tried contacting Dr Bruce Williams but the e-mail adresses I used said complete total faliure. Any one who has a ferret with this or any suggestions will help. Thanks Christy Date sent: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:52:04 -0500 From: "sue delaney" Subject: what should i expect? I am just a lurker. I have been too busy for a while to read any of my email except what's important, but I have all the emial's saved and will try to find time to go back through them. I was wondering though if anyone would be willing to send to me directly some information about adrenal disease. or lead me to some good info on the web. I have one ferret who is now completely bald, but my vet doesn't think he is a good surgery candidate and some of my friends that have ferrets who've had the surgery done said there ferrets either didn't make it through the surgery or died within a few days after it. I have another that is just starting to lose his hair. I am very worried about them. I don't really have the money to have the surgeries done either. I am sure they are a few hundred dollars, right? My vet wasn't sure but said she would contact the vet she refers the surgeries to. She doesn't do them herself. My email address is ferretkingdom@earthlink.net thank you all. sue MODERATOR'S NOTE: Hi Sue. I encourage you to send a post with your city/state as well, in case someone on the list can also give you a referral. Sometimes the most experienced ferret vets charge less (though costs vary greatly) because they have done many surgeries and often complete them in less time. $300 is a reasonable price for the surgery; pre-surgical tests may be needed as well. My vet has done many adrenal surgeries, and has a very low rate of loss, though there is some risk, particularly with right adrenal surgeries. That's why it is important to try to find a vet experienced in ferret adrenal surgeries. You should have received Pam Greene's Adrenal FAQ when you subscribed. If not, let me know and I'll forward you a copy. Also, the URL for Michael Janke's excellent adrenal/insulinoma website is in the introductory paragraphs of each FAIML. If someone could sent the URLs for Dr. Williams and Dr. Weiss's websites I should add those as well (and others you may know of?). Lynn Date sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:03:31 EST From: AFERRETVET@cs.com Subject: hemangiosarcomas Sorry it took me so long to reply. Hemangiosarcoma is a type of cancer that is uncommon in ferrets. However when they do get it, it usually involves the liver and/or the spleen. Ferrets with liver cancer or disease often have anorexia, weight loss, and lethargy. These are the common signs for ferrets with just about any illness. Other signs can include icterus (a yellow color to the mucus membranes and skin), vomiting, diarrhea, melena (black, tarry feces), anemia, and cachexia (wasting away). Again these signs can be from a lot of diseases that involve the liver or from disease that do not involve the liver. Bloodwork will usually, but not always, detect liver problems. Ultrasound is also another way to check the liver. One of my own ferrets died at the age of 7.5 years from a hemangiosarcoma of the liver. For more info you can refer to my article in the January 2000 issue of Veterinary Forum. I know you feel bad about the loss of your ferret, but it was not your fault. Sadly this is one of those cancers that is usually fatal regardless of what we try to do treatment wise. Jerry Murray, DVM Date sent: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 00:08:34 -0500 From: "Bruce Williams, DVM" Subject: Reply Jay Dear Sandi: >The vet wanted to do a necropsy, which I >watched. As soon as Jay's abdomen was opened it was full of blood, >the vet stating that's why he was unable to draw blood. The tumor was >about the size of a walnut and coming off the liver like another growth. >Vet said tumor had ruptured and Jay bled to death. >Dr. Murray or anyone, could this have been diagnosed or prevented? I am sorry for your lost, especially during the holiday season. If it is any solace, there is no way to prevent the development of visceral hemangiosarcomas, and antemortem diagnosis is rarely accomplished. If the tumor had been bleeding slowly for weaks, you might have seen a gradual decrease in activity and a slow onset anemia, but it sounds like this one came on very quickly. I recently worked on a case of visceral hemangiosarcoma which showed abundant abdominal flluid as a presenting sign, but it appears that this was not the case with Jay. You did what you had to do at the earliest time - you have no regrets, and there is no need to play the "what if" game in this case. With kindest regards, Bruce Williams, DVM Date sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:12:50 EST From: LDarkes@aol.com Subject: Another good-bye too soon.. Hello all, It's not been a good day. Mandrake took a turn for the worse in her recovery from insulinoma/adrenal surgery, which was a week ago today. She died from pneumonia this afternoon at the vet's office. She had developed diabetes following surgery and had to start insulin and IV fluid treatment yesterday. Losing her is so difficult. When we lost Bandit last month, I knew he was a surgical risk due to his age and his multiple problems. But Mandy seemed so strong and I fully expected she would recover well and have lots of time left with us. I was just reading issues of the FML that I had missed over the past couple of days and just read Dana's post of losing Princess. Dana, I'm so sorry for you loss. I share in your anger. It is devastating to think of people casting aside their ferrets, when I would give anything in the world to have the five I've lost this year back in my life. Life can be so unfair. I will try to write about her soon; I'm not up to that right now. Thanks for listening and please give you kids an extra hug tonight. You just never know when you won't get another chance. Lucie & Jack with Merlin, Myst, Clarence, Jessie and Sarah Always missing Bandit, Gandalf, Jasmine, Aislyn and Mandrake Date sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:12:54 EST From: LDarkes@aol.com Subject: Remembering Mandrake... Back in the early days of our growing ferret family, Jack and I took turns choosing the babies we would have join us. Since I had chosen my silver mitt, Jasmine the year before, Jack had decided we should next add the darkest colored sable we could find. We already had Gandalf, our White Wizard, so it was time to add Mandrake, the Dark Wizard. It took a while to find her, but one day Jack came home and told me he thought he had found her at a local pet store. We both went to look and ended up bringing home Mandrake and her sister Aislyn, another silver mitt I had fallen in love with. Our family grew to five. The two of them were oh, so tiny and were dubbed "the littles" as they toddled around their new home and met their new brothers and sisters who appeared enormous in comparison. Mandrake was the only one of our ferrets who actually barked. I recall a time when she was still very tiny when I walked into the room and startled her and she made this loud noise that I had never heard before. She only did this a couple times before she realized that although the world around her was huge, no harm would come to her in her new home. Mandrake never did live up to her name. Although she was dark in color, she was bright and gentle and kind in spirit. She remained a dark sable throughout her life, though her mask would become more pronounced at different times of the year. Her most striking feature to me was her eyes. They were big and gentle and brown, reminding one of those of a doe. She never hurt a soul, human or fuzzy; and she lived her life with a tranquil, quiet joy that spread through our home and touched us all. Every ferret has their favorite toys and for Mandy it was tennis balls. She would grab them by the fuzz and busily move them to where they belonged. Apparently, they each had a specific spot that only she knew about and it was her job to make sure they got there. How hard she worked at this! When it came to raisin time, while the others would crowd around climbing over each other trying to get theirs first, Mandy would patiently wait to the side for her turn. She was our only 100% litter box user. Even following her surgery, when she felt awful, she would make sure to get to the litter box in her hospital cage. She was truly an angel here on earth. Mandy would have been 6 years old on January 27. She shared her birthday with Aislyn and their older brother Gandy. Last year they were all here with me to celebrate. It will be a difficult day for us here, but I will think of them celebrating together. Her leaving has brought our family back to five again, as her joining us did. Mandy, I hope you know that I was only trying to make your life better by choosing surgery for you and I honestly thought you would be better in time for Christmas here with us. I know how much you missed Aislyn when she left. I had hoped you would wait a while to join her, but I guess you knew better. By now, I know you have found her, along with Jasmine, Gandalf, Bandit, and Amber. I will be thinking of all of you together again for Christmas hoping you have a tree to play in and under with lots of presents. Merlin was looking for you this morning, checking for you in the green sleep sack and the crinkle bag that you loved to nap in. He misses you all so much and seems to wonder where all of this brothers and sisters went in such a short time. My darling girl, I miss you more than words can say. Your tennis ball is still where you left it, by the rocking chair. It belongs there, so there it will stay. You will always be in our hearts. Til we meet again… With all my love your Mom, Lucie, Missing you terribly with your Dad, Jack and brothers and sisters, Merlin, Myst, Clarence, Jessie, and Sarah, and your feline friend Binks Date sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:32:07 -0800 (PST) From: "meesh meesh" Subject: meesh: Prostatic Disease Article Hi every one, Hope everyone's holiday time is going well. I finally got the article scanned, albeit into about four files. I'm in the midst of travelling..visiting family Canada...so far, been to Vancouver, Edmonton and on my way to Toronto today (monday). I'll be in Toronto for a while but I don't have a computer there. One of my relatives probably will so I'll find a way to send off the article to all who requested it. Just wanted to let everyone know I hadn't forgotten...I'm on my sister's computer and it's jumping all over the place and just deleted the message I had just typed so I have to make this short before it does it again....I'll get the article out as soon as I have access to a puter that works properly. If anyone is desperate for the article..call my *new* :) cell number and leave a voicemail 614-370-5552. I better sign off before this email gets deleted again. Hugs and ferret kisses to all, meesh Michaela Maurice College of Veterinary Medicine Ohio State University Class of 2002 ---------------------- End of FAIML #491 ------------------------