From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 4:10 AM
To: FAIMLanon; FAIML
Subject: FAIML #498; Jan. 9, 2001

Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #498; Jan. 9, 2001


There are seven messages in today's list:    

Cinnamon's having surgery!
Udder Cream and Bag Balm; Abby
diarrhea
prostate infections/problems.
Re: FAIML #497; Jan. 7, 2001
fasting before surgery
Itchy and/or sore skin for ferrets


FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a 
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Date sent:      Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:03:26 EST
From:           	AnnH330@aol.com
Subject:        	Cinnamon's having surgery!

Hi all  

First of all, thanks so much to all who responded to my previous post 
asking about results and/or problems from bilateral adrenal surgery.  I 
received several and all were positive.  I tried to respond to everyone 
who wrote but if I missed anyone I am sorry.   

Cinnamon is scheduled for right adrenal surgery tomorrow, Tues, 
1/9/01.  Light candles, say prayers, whatever your choice that she 
comes through this ok. I am very concerned, as I always am, about her 
going under anesthetic and then the surgery itself.  But my vet and I feel 
that this is the best course of treatment since the Lupron must be losing 
it's potency since she is starting to lose hair again at the base of her tail 
and it has only been 7 weeks since her last 4 mo depot injection.  She 
hadn't lost any hair (after getting it back, of course) since going on the 
Lupron in 10/99.  

Someone questioned about whether we were sure she had right adrenal 
and the response is as sure as we can be as she was about 75% bald in 
the fall of '99 and regained her hair after 2 injections of Lupron.  She 
had more pronounced symptoms this time than she did when she had 
the left adrenal removed at age 3, she is now 3 months shy of 6 yrs.  
Anyway, please keep her in your thoughts.  I will post later about how 
she does.   

Ann and Cinnamon, Jillian, Wriggley, Zoey and greatly missing Sabrina 
and Pepper.  


Date sent:      	Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:11:19 -0500
From:           	"Eileen Ledbetter" <stumpy2@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:        	Udder Cream and Bag Balm; Abby

Dr Bruce Williams wrote:
 <If she can't handle the surgery, let's consider at least Lupron
 <injections for the adrenal - it will cause hair regrowth, and will at least
<yield her some protection - I don't know if anyone has looked at 
<whether it will help with the itching - itchiness in ferrets is such a 
difficult <syndrome to quantify anyhow.

My ferret Abby had her first lupron shot last October.  It has not helped 
her baldness, but it took away the swollen vulva, the excessive 
kissiness, and all of her terrible itchiness.  I am very happy about that 
and consider the $200.00 well spent for her comfort.  I had hoped to 
see hair growth too, but looking back I now see that's the least of her 
problems.  

Sadly now I think we are reaching the end stages of the disease 
process.  She stopped eating on her own last week and I have gone to 
total hand feeding. Because of teeth grinding, her vet suspects an ulcer 
and has put her on amoxicillin.  It may be helping but it's hard to tell.  
I'm also starting to notice some panting to her breathing.  With the hand 
feeding she has gained back a little strength, has good output with no 
diarrhea, and still seems interested in her surroundings for the short time 
she is up and about.  I have found she really loves Gerbers "Beef with 
Gravy" baby food and eats it very readily, which is a relief to her 
stessed out ferret mom.  But my question is this....how much per day 
should I try to get into her?  Please talk to me in ounces.  One jar is 2 
and 1/2 ounces.  Abby weighes just 1 lb. 4 ounces right now.  Is one jar 
a day too much?  That's what I try for but it probably comes out to 
about 3/4 of a jar.  I don't want to force too much into her and kill her; 
but she has become so thin it is a temptation just to keep stuffing it in to 
try to fatten her up Having a bench mark will really help me know I'm 
on the right track.  Thanks so much and love to all the sick babies.  

                                        Eileen

Date sent:      Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:19:33 -0800
From:           	"Donald Dittman" <ddittman@csonline.net>
Subject:        	diarrhea

Help, I have three ferrets extremely ill with diarrhea. I know this has 
nothing to do with the adrenal/insulinoma context of this list but I saw 
someone else on here saying about their ferret Barry having bad 
diarrhea. I almost lost my smallest girl and none of them are out of the 
woods yet. They are on clavamox and flagyl.  Is there something new 
and deadly going around? My vet was very vague and said it wasn't 
ECE but had no idea what it was. I recently introduced a new ferret into 
the group after he was pronounced healthy and I thought it was stress at 
first but now all but one of my older ferrets are ill. Any ideas? 
Laurel  


Date sent:      Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:57:31 EST
From:           	AFERRETVET@cs.com
Subject:        	prostate infections/problems.

Hi Andrea,

Well you have some good questions about treating a prostate infection. 
As for what antibiotic(s) to use - it really depends on what bacteria(s) is 
causing the infection. Generally it is 1 of  3 bacteria :1) E.coli, 2) Staph, 
and 3) Strep,  or it can be a combination of the 3. The only way to 
know which bacteria is involved is to do a culture (usually from a urine 
sample). What antibiotic(s) usually work against these 3 bacteria? 
Usually Baytril does a great job against E.coli, other gm- bacteria, and 
Staph. Usually Clavamox drops or Cefa drops will do a great job 
against Staph, Strep,  other gm+ bacteria, and some E.coli. 
Amoxidrops does a good job also, but bacteria can become resistant to 
amoxidrops quickly. A sensitivity test with the culture can tell you which 
antibiotic is like to work.  Another good choice for prostate infections is 
a Trimethoprim/sulfa drug. A culture and sensitivity test will help answer 
your questions. 

The other question is - how long to give the antibiotic(s)? If it is just a 
bladder infection then 7-14 days is usually long enough. On the other 
hand a prostate infection may need to be treated for 4 weeks up to 3 
months. Benny's chronic infection will likely need to be treated for a 
long time. 

Other drugs that can be used to help shrink the prostate (and help clear 
up the infection quicker) are: a higher dose of Lupron, Propecia/Proscar 
(finasteride), Casodex (bicalutamide), or Flutamide. My choice for 
prostate problems is Propecia. In Benny's case with a chronic infection, 
I would go at a high dose of 1mg per day until the prostate shrinks and 
the infection is under control then reduce it to 0.1mg per day. I would 
also use a high dose of Lupron 300-500mcg/kg/month until the prostate 
problem is under control then reduce to 100-200 mcg/kg/month. 
Hope that helps, Jerry Murray, DVM.  


Date sent:      Mon, 8 Jan 2001 21:52:00 -0500
From:           "Bruce Williams, DVM" <williams@ex-pressnet.com>
Subject:        	Re: FAIML #497; Jan. 7, 2001

Dear Kelly:

>We have been through adrenal surgery twice before and I'm
>embarrassed to admit that I can't remember how long to fast our baby?
>The directions said 12hrs.  I know I went through this before.  I'm sure
>that's too long.  I was thinking around 5 or 6?  This vet has done two
>other surgeries for us, but I realize he is not the most knowledgeable.
>Unfortunately he is our best option.  I really hate going through this
>again!  I'm hoping we will be able to bring our baby home the same 
day
>because I know she will get more care home with me.  It is too noisy,
>cold, etc., and I know they don't usually have someone paying attention
>to them overnight unless they are really sick.  Any advice to us would 
be
>appreciated.

Generally, a fast of about six hours is sufficient, and four hours would 
probably do.  The GI transit time of ferrets is 1.5 - 4.0 hours, meaning 
how fast the food moves out of the stomach.  Once the food gets out of 
the stomach into the small intestine, even if they throw up (which is rare 
in properly anesthetized ferrets) there won't be anything to aspirate 
except a little fluid.  So 12 hours of fasting in ferrets, which is the rule for 
dogs, is a bit excessive for ferrets.  Most normal healthy ferrets can 
tolerate it, but if you have insulinoma as well, you may be setting 
yoruself up for a doozy of a hypoglycemic attack.  

Regarding bringing the ferret home after the surgery - do it by all means. 
Your nursing care is much better than a night alone at the vets. 
Understanding vets who trust their clients often send them home at the 
end of the day.  Do the surgery early, monitor for complications closely 
all day long, and send them home with your phone number should 
problems arise - the mark of a good ferret vet.  

All the best,

Bruce


Date sent:      Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:22:10 -0500
From:           	"Michael F. Janke" <mjanke@miamiferret.org>
Subject:        	fasting before surgery

>From:           	KFor651676@aol.com
>Subject:        	Fasting before surgery
>
>We have been through adrenal surgery twice before and I'm
>embarrassed to admit that I can't remember how long to fast our baby?
>The directions said 12hrs.  I know I went through this before.  I'm sure
>that's too long.

I don't like to fast them any more than about 4 hours and my vet agrees. 
 I think those directions you have are generic.  When my clinic calls to 
remind me about an upcoming visit for surgery, they remind me to take 
away food the night before.  I complain to my vet about them telling 
people that, but it doesn't seem to take.  No harm is done for me, but 
what about people that don't know any better.  

For the ferrets,
Mike

* Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org
* South Florida Ferret Help Line, 305-752-7040
*
* Website:  http://www.miamiferret.org
* Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc


Date sent:      Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:06:09 -0500
From:           "Michele Abel Focer" <ferretlady@mindspring.com>
Subject:        	Itchy and/or sore skin for ferrets

For itchy and / or dry/sore skin, I use pure vitamin E. Buy it in the 
capsules, puncture it, and rub the oil directly onto the skin. It 
moisturizes, and heals the skin nicely, and is NATURAL! I even put it in 
the ferret's shampoo every time I bathe them. They also enjoy licking it 
right off my hand.


---------------------- End of FAIML #498 ------------------------