From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 1:25 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #500; Jan. 11, 2001 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #500; Jan. 11, 2001 There are seven messages in today's list: skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret adrenal surgery Fasting prior to surgery diarrhea Cinnamon did well Cardiomyopathy If you really want to help ferrets FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading and send to . Remember: the more specific you can be in your subject heading the greater the chance someone will be able to find your important info when searching the archives. URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I get it; then I'll include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send new subscribers the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam has also compiled excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Plus, it comes out daily. I encourage people to cross post on the FML and FAIML to get the most possible exposure and feedback. Visit FERRET CENTRAL website (you can find its address in the paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:45:00 EST From: Shellebeans@aol.com Subject: skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret HI!! I'm Shelly and my little carpet shark is "Derby". He's 5 1/2 yrs old and we've been hanging around just reading since he was diagnosed with insulinoma in Oct '00. He's on Pred daily and doing pretty well. I'm a big believer in quality of life and have shyed away from surgery so far. Now though, he has a mass (mast?) cell tumor on his chin. He scratches at it some times but not too bad. The vet said it should come off but will require surgery/anesthetic (just for the skin tumor,not the insulinoma). Does anyone know how long i can wait to do this? Will the risk of putting an insulinomic guy like Derby under anethesia be worth getting this thing off him? I'de like to wait as long as I can. The vet did say they would run a glucose IV during the surgery but I just don't feel real good about the whole thing. Please let me know if anyone has seen this type of tumor and what ya think. I lean away from surgery unless it is a major impact on his quality of life but I'm not sure how dangerous this thing is on his neck. In the meen time, the little maniac seems to feel pretty good, he's scampering all over the place. thanks for all your help. Luck to all the fuzzies!! Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 09:36:35 -0500 From: "Felty" Subject: adrenal surgery Hi, Dee Dee didnt survive her adrenal/sulmonia surgery.I picked her up at 5pm and checked her before bed she was dead in a pool of blood. Vet said oh must of been a bleeder. I have a male 4-5 years with hair lose on hind feet and tail, but no more surgery. What is lupron and how does it work?. My vet removed 3 large tumors from dee, one on each adrenal gland and pancres. How do you decide to just remove tumor or the gland?I feel she was fasted to long 8hours and he didnt do her surgery till 1:00 pm, so she really never came out of the anthesia. That was all most13 hours of fasting, but if any suggestions with my other ferret would help. thanks christy Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:33:14 -0600 From: "David & Debi Christy" Subject: Fasting prior to surgery >... to 'never' fast a ferret prior to surgery... In theory, it's wonderful. The most serious ferret support problems are caused by interrupted eating schedules. Never fasting may be fine at YOUR vet's clinic. It may be a really great clinic. Most, unfortunately, are not. I'm not a vet, but I've stood by the vet's elbow in surgery often enough to know that a full tummy can cause some problems in some cases. For instance, a hairball surgery where the stomach must be opened... you don't want all the excess stuff in the stomach spilling over into the body cavity while you're working the hairball out of the incision. The more common full tummy complication is nausea following surgery. Unless someone is actually holding the ferret for the 15 to 45 minutes post op that it can take for the fuzzy to shake off the effects of the isoflourine anesthetic, the ferret could easily choke while half conscious, or aspirate regurgitated food. This, of course, depends entirely on the specific clinic and staff. Most clinics don't (or won't) allow that much post op handling time. The ferret is simply deposited in a kennel (or incubator at really good clinics) and checked on every 10 or 15 minutes... plenty of time to drown in puke. The really great clinics will let you stand around & hold your ferret until he's completely awake and any nausea has passed. BUT... If your clinic says "no food after midnight before surgery day" ignore it. Take away food 3 or 4 hours before the surgery. The staffer was simply repeating standard procedure for most animals... dogs & cats... and wasn't aware or didn't remember that a ferret's metabolism cycles in 3 to 4 hours. With that said, I'll add... In my personal opinion, there's absolutely no reason to fast a ferret for more than 3 hours prior to any surgery... most especially ferrets suspected of insulinoma. In addition, I've found that ferrets who eat small amounts of soup (no more than 10ml) 4 hours after surgery (even stomach surgeries) recover more quickly from the trauma of surgery... but bear in mind that your vet may have a specific reason for not wanting your ferret to eat that soon. (The digestive system actually sort of "shuts down" following surgery... that's why you should give only 5 to 10ml of BLAND soup.) Under no circumstances would I wait more than 8 hours before trying to get something liquid and bland in the ferret's stomach after surgery. Ferrets that are left overnight at a clinic after surgery sometimes go for 12 hours or more without eating. That's roughly the equivalent of a human going without food for two days. Not much fuel for recovery, there. They have to utilize stored fat in the body while their stomach growls... that's more work on the traumatized body. For any questions or comments not pertinent to the original subject, please reply to ferrets1st@ferretshelters.com. Debi Christy Ferrets First Foster Home Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:20:40 -0800 From: "Donald Dittman" Subject: diarrhea I am trying to answer everyone personally off list but I just want to thank each and every one of you for your input into my ferrets' problems. So far Franny seems a bit better, Ziggy is almost himself again, and Sissy is still thin and shaky. She just seems to start recovering and then relapses. I know it can take a long time though so I'm just being Nurse Laurel until everybody is out of the woods. Thanks again to everyone. Laurel Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:32:20 EST From: AnnH330@aol.com Subject: Cinnamon did well Hi all, Thought you might like an update on Cinnamon. She had her procedure on Tues morning and came home to me at 5pm. The place on her abdomen that the vet thought might be an hemangioma turned out to be a cyst with dark fluid in it, it was removed. The right adrenal was a challenge according to the vet as it didn't come out whole, it came out in pieces. But, he said he got most, if not all of it which is a blessing. We will be watching her to see if supplements are needed. She is recovering well. The first night she took a while to completely wake up but she began to eat and drink on her on within a couple of hours of getting home, which was a blessing in itself as she will only eat her kibble, turns her nose up to duck soup and chicken gravy. Actually, none of my kids liked the gravy, must have been the chef! She is up and about as I type this, visiting with her cage mate, Jillian, they miss each otheras Cinnamon is in the recovery house for a few days! Anyway, the news so far is good. Thank you all for your prayers, thoughts and emails. They have been really appreciated and support to my doubts about doing this. This truly is a great bunch of people. I think I responded to all messages I received but in case I missed anyone, thank you from this forum. Ann and her crew, Cinnamon (on the road to recovery, whew), Jillian, Wriggley and Zoey, sadly missing Sabrina and Pepper. Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:41:33 -0500 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Cardiomyopathy >From: JHerge9760@aol.com >Subject: Cardiomyopathy > >My question is what is Cardiomyopathy and what causes it? >What are the treatments? Life expectancies and quality? Go here... http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/cardiomyopathy.htm for some information on Cardiomyopathy in ferrets by Dr. Bruce Williams and some personal experiences by Suki Crandall (the link to this is at the top of the above page). For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * South Florida Ferret Help Line, 305-752-7040 * * Website: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc Date sent: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:22:35 EST From: Saracecili@aol.com Subject: If you really want to help ferrets Dear Lynn and all Ferret Lovers, My roomate's ferret just died of kidney disease, at 2 years old. He suffered terribly. I have seen so many ferrets die of both diseases and accidents, and so many neglected and unwanted ferrets live life in cages only to die at young ages. PLEASE, if you care about ferrets, don't buy them in stores or from breeders! If you genuinely care about animals, don't treat them like a material resource. The more animals bred, more animals will suffer. 20 million "unwanted" dogs and cats are put to death in this country each year. Most of them were bought in stores or from breeders as cute puppies or kittens, then for one reason or another, they weren't wanted anymore and taken to a shelter that had no choice but to put them to death. This is what is in store for ferrets if we don't stop buying them. For ferrets there is an added urgency because they are so easily hurt and neglected, and so prone to illness and disease. Please do the right thing! Rescue an animal from a shelter instead. Volunteer at a shelter, donate money and time. Look those animals in the eye and promise them that you won't but while they die. Peace, Sarah ---------------------- End of FAIML #500 ------------------------