From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 1:17 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #501; Jan. 13, 2001 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #501; Jan. 13, 2001 There are six messages in today's list: Clint's surgery - post-op questions Jonesy Meds for pain post-op skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret minor surgery for insulinoma ferret skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading and send to . Remember: the more specific you can be in your subject heading the greater the chance someone will be able to find your important info when searching the archives. URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I get it; then I'll include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send new subscribers the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam has also compiled excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Plus, it comes out daily. I encourage people to cross post on the FML and FAIML to get the most possible exposure and feedback. Visit FERRET CENTRAL website (you can find its address in the paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. Date sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:28:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Laura Grant" Subject: Clint's surgery - post-op questions Hi! Just wanted to let everyone know that Clint had surgery Thursday afternoon around 3pm. Turned out it was a right adrenal (the right was definitely larger and felt harder than the left), but he came through it well. The tissue has been sent out for pathology, so we'll hope for good results. I was happy that my vet only charged me $250 for the surgery, even with it being a right adrenal! Money sure isn't growing on trees around here, what with a husband in college and not working and me expecting our first baby in June, so the bill was a nice surprise. He got to come home yesterday around 7pm and has been doing pretty well. He's eating a gruel of mashed kibble, turkey baby food, ferretone and nutrical, thinned with water. He doesn't seem to want to drink too much water by itself, but eats the gruel from a spoon pretty good, so he is getting some fluids that way. He has used his litterbox well (and has been playing in it some out of boredom, I think), although he's had pretty loose stools - a result of the surgery I assume? Some have been greenish and a little mucousy, but he has had some more normal-looking stools. He has been grinding his teeth after eating, more so this afternoon than earlier. I know that usually means nausea or stomach upset, doesn't it? Do you think it's probably due to the stress of surgery and anesthetic, or maybe the antibiotics? He really hates his medicine - he's on amoxicillin trihydrate/clavulanate potassium drops 3xs a day. It must taste terrible the way he acts! He seems to be getting around pretty good for just being home 24 hours. He's already tried to climb out of his cage while he's being fed, and has rearranged his level of the cage a couple of times. He's also strong enought to really put up a fight when it's time for his meds. He isn't too interested in his buddies right now, but we let both of them see him when we brought him home - Arnold the piggy was more interested in Clint's food than in Clint. Sorry this is so long, just wanted to let everyone know what's going on and to thank everyone once again for all their support and advice. We've got a ways to go yet, but I am hopeful he'll make a quick recovery. Any suggestions on post-op care are welcomed-you can email me directly since I'll be a bit busy playing ferret nurse for a while! Thanks again! Laura Arnold, Clint and Sophie Date sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:40:24 -0600 From: "Sue Stout" Subject: Jonesy I spoke with the vet today about Jonesy. Tried to get in to see him, but he was booked. He did call me this evening though. He told me to use neosporin on Jonesys back. Jonesy's back is all scabbed between the front legs--about quarter size from all the scratching of the itches.. I tried to find Calendula Cream, but all I could find contained alcohol. I have been using udder cream which gives relief of the itch for about an hour. Poor little guy also has a sore on his ear from scratching. Says he is already of steroids, so no need to apply a topical one. Says too, that the itch is not from allergic reaction..(as if I didn't know that). He also warned me that he could become very agressive towards the other ferrets in the cage. Told me to keep his nails short which I already do. He told me that the itching is from "dry skin". Jonesys skin does not appear to be dry. I asked some questions I wish I had not asked. Seems like the tumors will spread to his little liver and finally to the prostate. That seems to be the time I will need to think about helping him cross. Vet says that could be a year or two yet tho if I am lucky. ME lucky? This is not about me! He said as long as he keeps eating we are doing ok. Told him that Jonesy only eats Hills AD and duck soup when he is held and fed. (He will eat it from dish as long as you hold dish and hold him). Does not eat kibble anymore. Spoiled maybe? Says if the prostate becomes enlarged, we could put him on meds to shrink it and then do some surgery, but prognosis is not good at that point and that he could die while we wait for the prostate to shrink enough for the surgery to be done.. He continues to discourage surgery..says you can never get all the tumors on the pancreas so will only prolong things and that they will continue to grow back.. I really do - did like this vet, but am not liking what I am hearing. I am angry at him too. I kept telling him about the adrenal symptoms Jonesy was having months ago..agressiveness, atypical hair loss. He ignored it and dismissed it. He has discouraged surgery from day one of the insulinoma. Now the tumors have traveled to his adrenals and who knows where else. He also said there are no medicines for adrenal disease..that the ones out there don't work. He said that it is the insulinoma that is life threatening not adrenal disease. Said that ferrets can live a good life bald, and can even grow their hair back. Tried to tell him that that is NOT the issue..his health is. I have been trying to get his prednisolone changed to pediapred for months now, but he likes prednisolone..even though it contains alcohol. We tried Proglycem, but Jonesy cannot tolerate it. Even a drop of it makes him go unresponsive.I called another vet today. Have heard that she is ferret knowledgeable...but she was booked and will be out of town for the next two weeks starting Monday. I do think I will pursue this one when she gets back and see what she has to say. I feel so helpless! I guess I am just looking for emotional support, good advise and someone to tell me I am not a bad ferret mommy for believing the vet. Sue Jonesy and the group of furballs MODERATOR'S NOTE: Sue lives in Highland, Indiana, about 30 miles South of Chicago. Can anyone provide Sue and Jonesy with a personal recommendation of a ferret-experienced vet? Lynn Date sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:21:27 EST From: KFor651676@aol.com Subject: Meds for pain post-op Thank you everyone for all of your responses regarding my fasting question. After hearing for Dr. Williams I am reassured! I spoke to my vet regarding all the important things; keeping them warm, the right anesthesia, iv fluids and I feel much better. He does all of the right things and I was given generic pre-op instructions. My next question is medication for pain after surgery. Phoebe had her left removed and then a second surgery to remove the right. They never gave us a pain med. Our vet felt it was not needed and could cause the ferret to become too active. I feel uncomfortable with this. It seems barbaric! If I had surgery I would need something, why not my ferret Ellie? Thanks Again, Kelly Date sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:31:04 -0600 (CST) From: "John Rosloot" com Subject: skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret Hi Shelly. I just wanted to relate my own experiences about this. My Sammy was diagnosed with insulinoma in April 1999, just under the age of 5. I've had good luck in general with surgery over the years (have owned three ferrets over the past 8.5 years, and been through about 10 surgeries, including spay/neuter, intestinal blockage removal, adrenal/insulinoma and mast cell tumors), so the first thing we tried was surgery. The vet removed several bumps from Sammy's pancreas. But he didn't improve much. Over the next year I had to watch Sammy's diet, started giving him extra feedings of a high nutrition 'mush', then later started him on prednisone. By April 2000 Sammy's attacks were becoming more frequent, and increasing his medication wasn't helping much, so we tried a second surgery. This time the vet tried a procedure I'd read about on the Ferret Mailing List and the FAIML, a partial pancreatomy; he removed about 1/3 of Sammy's pancreas where some new bumps were concentrated. The result was miraculous. Before this surgery Sammy's blood glucose dropped as low as 20 sometimes, he was on daily prednisone, and still having attacks at least once a week. After surgery Sammy's blood glucose was stable at 100. It's been 9 months and there have been no more attacks, no more medication and no more extra feedings. Now, not every ferret will improve as well as Sammy, but I think it's worth a try. Sammy also developed several skin bumps (mast cell tumors) last summer. He had another surgery to remove those (they were benign). Sammy will be 7 this May, and is doing well (except for hereditary eye problems now; it's always something with these little guys). I tend to favor surgery, since I've had good results with it. In my experience ferrets tolerate it extremely well. They are often back to their normal mischief the next day. I believe that the longer you wait to have surgery, the greater the risk. I've lost two ferrets to malignant cancer. In both cases I wonder if they'd have lived longer if we'd operated sooner; by the time we did operate the cancer had already spread. If we'd gotten it sooner it might not have turned malignant or spread yet. But there's no way to know. You want to have a vet who is experienced and comfortable with the various types of ferret surgery. As long as that's the case, I think surgery is often a good way to go. Ferrets really do handle it well, and are often playing again the next day. Good luck with your little Derby. HI!! I'm Shelly and my little carpet shark is "Derby". He's 5 1/2 yrs old and we've been hanging around just reading since he was diagnosed with insulinoma in Oct '00. He's on Pred daily and doing pretty well. I'm a big believer in quality of life and have shyed away from surgery so far. Now though, he has a mass (mast?) cell tumor on his chin. He scratches at it some times but not too bad. The vet said it should come off but will require surgery/anesthetic (just for the skin tumor,not the insulinoma). Does anyone know how long i can wait to do this? Will the risk of putting an insulinomic guy like Derby under anethesia be worth getting this thing off him? I'de like to wait as long as I can. The vet did say they would run a glucose IV during the surgery but I just don't feel real good about the whole thing. Please let me know if anyone has seen this type of tumor and what ya think. I lean away from surgery unless it is a major impact on his quality of life but I'm not sure how dangerous this thing is on his neck. In the meen time, the little maniac seems to feel pretty good, he's scampering all over the place. thanks for all your help. Luck to >all the fuzzies!! -- John Rosloot, Caregiver to Sammy With loving memories of my dear departed Buddy, and my precious little Cassie-angel http://www.cs.uregina.ca/~john/ferrets john@cs.uregina.ca Date sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:34:39 -0500 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: minor surgery for insulinoma ferret >From: Shellebeans@aol.com >Subject: skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret I'd be a bit nervous myself but they're pretty tough little critters and as long as he's properly maintained during surgery (and it sounds like your vet knows what to do) he should do ok. Of course there's always a risk with any surgery, but I personally wouldn't wait. What looks like a mast cell tumor can be something else. Max had what looked like a classic mast cell tumor on his head. It's been a few years, so I don't remember exactly what it was, but the biopsy report was scary and my vet said it was a very aggressive cancer. We got it all so there were no further problems, but had we waited too long, it could have metastisized and that would have been bad news. Beasley has had low blood glucose for almost three years now, and he had a small skin tumor removed about six months ago with no difficulty. I hounded my vet no end (I can be a real pain) and the receptionists, vet tech and the guy who took him in back for the surgery to make sure they all knew his level of hypoglycemia. I taped a note to his travel cage, made the receptionist write down "Severe hypoglycemia" on the surgery intake sheet and underline it, etc., etc., but in reality, my vet knows what to do. In the end, I think Beasley did MUCH better than I did. :-) For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * South Florida Ferret Help Line, 305-752-7040 * * Website: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc Date sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:56:38 EST From: EquineAmy@aol.com Subject: skin tumor on an insulinomic ferret Hi Shelly, I belive my ferret has the same thing - a few of them actually,  but I got differnt info from my vet. Chloe always seems to have a scab on  her shoulder. At her yearly checkup, I asked him about it. He sayd they are  common in ferrets but besides being annoying, it doesnt' mean much - he said  in dogs and cats it basically kills them but in ferrets it seem to do  nothing. He told me that I can put some cortisone cream on it (I think - but  I would check before I did that to make sure) and it would help with the  bleeding - but to just leave it alone. Since that diagnosis I have found  some smaller ones on her as well as one on my male ferret too. Chloe has had  this for at least a year now and it has had no negative effects as I can tell  -  good luck with your guy.   -Amy   ---------------------- End of FAIML #501 ------------------------