From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 10:39 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #504; Jan. 18, 2001 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #504; Jan. 18, 2001 Hi! Post about Wally in the list.... oh, I am keeping those thoughts and prayers flowing! Did I send out a list #502? If so, could someone send me a copy? Thank you. And thank you to those who sent messages about Wally! He's not out of the woods yet, but a whole lot was done that could help his quality of life, if he can recover from this major, major surgery! Thank you for being there :) Lynn There are seven messages in today's list: Adrenals Abby Lupron Protocal Lynn's Wally- More healing thoughts :) Milly's insulinoma Replys to 503 insulinoma FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a list featuring support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. It comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the urgency and number of posts. It is the opinion, only, of subscribers, and is not intended as medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is exhibiting signs of illness please take him or her to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find. A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide for your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading and send to . Remember: the more specific you can be in your subject heading the greater the chance someone will be able to find your important info when searching the archives. URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I get it; then I'll include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE and FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: For more info, check out Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Past FAIMLs are archived there, with a search feature, and Michael is kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and their ferrets in a FAIML Album. FERRET CENTRAL WEBSITE and PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: Ferret Central Website is the grand intersection of ferret websites, at . You can also find the Ferret FAQs there, which include invaluable FAQs on insulinoma and adrenal diseases. I forward these two FAQs to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send new subscribers the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam has also compiled excellent FAQ's about general ferret care. FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Plus, it comes out daily. I encourage people to cross post on the FML and FAIML to get the most possible exposure and feedback. Visit FERRET CENTRAL website (you can find its address in the paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email.  Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:09:33 -0600 From: teckart@oznet.ksu.edu Subject: Adrenals When it rains it pours.... We have 6 adrenal surgeries on the horizon. Ferris had his left removed late last year then a Lupron depot (4 month) injection because his symptoms continued. He goes back into surgery in the next couple of months as his symptoms are starting again. He did regrow his beautiful long white coat when the Lupron depot injection started working - 8 weeks after the shot. Farrah is completely bald except for a bit of hair on her ankles and face. Cute as can be and in good shape. She was originally described as missing some hair on one leg, which at the time wasn't as extensive as it is now but was more than just the leg. She is about 6 1/2 and doing well. Mazy and Dandy both came from the same person and are malnourished as well as adrenal. We'll get their weight up before surgery. Snoopy also came from this same person earlier this year, also adrenal. Loverboy (aptly named) is both insulinoma and adrenal so Larry will work on both. Sammie has insulinoma and is 6 1/2. I'm not sure about surgery for her. She's in good shape but she's not a strong ferret. I'm just not sure.... All are older and in good condition so hopefully the surgeries will be successful and healing will be quick and painless (well as painless as can be). Our vet is starting to use Laser surgery but hasn't on adrenals yet as he is very cautious. Any one's vets using Laser surgery on adrenals? If so would your vet be willing to talk to our vet? Larry is always interested in talking with others on new practices. Scribble will need his spleen removed, it is huge and he's very sluggish. Ronnie is thin and I can feel a lump on her left side so she goes in for exploratory - she'll be in the first group of 3 surgeries. Princess has a bump on her side to be removed. Still, all in all, they are doing well. :-) On a sad note, my little Coco Puff that is almost 9 is slowing down so much. She has lost most of her hair (adrenal) and is a tiny little thing. Her time is limited and she is a frail little old lady with lots of stories in her history. She still has her moments - she's outlived all her friends and when she feels feisty she will walk up to whoever ferret is near and scream in their ear. When they move she follows and does it again till they run off. She totters around barely keeping her balance and when she falls over her little legs flail till she gets on her feet again. I've lovingly called her my energizer bunny and even now she prefers to do it by herself, so even though my heart aches to hold and cuddle and coddle her I know that would not be what she wants all the time though she will accept it from time to time. Hugs to all. tle Troy Lynn Eckart Ferret Family Services http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~sprite/ffs.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/5481/ Please sign up to support our charity http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=46&mid=58395 Date sent: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:04:12 -0500 From: "Eileen Ledbetter" Subject: Abby Hello everyone, Sadly I must report that my little Abby was helped to the Bridge yesterday. She could no longer tolerate eating or drinking; and by yesterday I knew she was in pain because she would whimper when trying to urinate or defecate. She was also having trouble breathing and the vet said fluid had built up around her heart. I was an emotional wreck watching her suffer. Making the call to the vet was one of the saddest thing I ever had to do, but watching her suffer was even sadder. I am still sad and shell-shocked today from all the emotional turmoil, but there is also a sense of relief that she is now at peace. It has been great having this list to turn to. I never posted much, but I read and gleaned a lot of information that was so useful. For example, I learned about lupron here and read how many it had helped. I was able to educate Abby's vet about it with the information and links I found here. Abby had her injection in October and it made her remaining months far more comfortable. No more itching, no more swollen vulva. During the very last week, the itching was starting to return, but I was able to sooth her skin with Vitamin E oil which someone on this list said helped a great deal, and it worked for Abby too. Thanks for all help and support. Abby had a good long life, that was marred only in the last few weeks as that relentless disease finally caught up with her. She touched everyone's heart with her sweet disposition. Now, it's like a little light has gone out from our house. Her brother Larz must carry on all alone after having her to cuddle up with his entire life. I will be watching him carefully for signs of depression. Abby, my little cutie....my sweet patootie, you will be missed. Eileen Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:48:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Cameron" Subject: Lupron Protocal Hi, First I want to give my sincere condolences to all that have lost their little beloved ones recently. I hope Lynn's, Wally did well in surgery!! To the owner of Buddy, I have a very similar situation with an insulinomic ferret. She is almost 9, has had insulinoma for a couple of years, is on pred and proglycem. This past fall she did not want to eat and seemed to be heading downhill fast. Her lab work showed she had a very high BUN, meaning she was in kidney failure. We started giving her sub-q fluids, plus she will take water orally with a syringe. She also has diarrhea a lot. The fluids have done wonders for her, her BUN is dropping and she is back to enjoying her food. No, she doesn't do much besides sleep and eat, but she seems to be comfortable and enjoying her special attention. Have you checked Buddy's kidney functions? Maybe she is suffering from the same thing, and fluids may help her too. Just a thought. Now to my question, to those of you who have ferrets receiving the one month Lupron dosages, do your vets advise giving them forever, or do you stop the injections once symptoms have subsided, knowing you will have to start them again when the symptoms return? I have been getting conflicting views from two different vets. I know there is not a lot of research on Lupron use yet, but was hoping to find out what the majority of you are doing? Thank you for your help. Julie Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:01:55 -0800 From: Lynn McIntosh Subject: Lynn's Wally- More healing thoughts :) Wow. Wally, our seven and a quarter year old fur kid who had surgery today, had a whole lost of stuff taken out! The huge thing we were feeling in the lower right abdomen was a big hard mass. It was carefully dissected out, away from the vena cava (shiver). It was down beneath the kidney. There may have been something growing in a similar spot on the other side, but it was very soft, like fat. He had a second one- third of his pancreas removed, including a nodule. The right adrenal had started to grow back and into the liver; a tiny part of the liver is normally attached to the adrenal, and that part was removed. The left looked small and normal but, since he'd never regrown all his hair after the right was removed, the left adrenal was taken out. What else.... there were a few small ectopic growths in tissue surrounding the intestines (I think I got the placement right; need to clarify); those were removed and will be looked at by a pathologist; they could have spread from the adrenal or pancreactic growths (I don't like the sound of these).... What else. Oh yes. After all this our vet Cindy felt a mass in the tummy! So she got everything all cleaned up and stiched back together and made a tiny incision in the stomach. A hairball! About an inch and a half long and hard. Poor Wally. He was one sick baby. He just received a transfusion, not for major blood loss (though Cindy said everything was very vascular) but because he went into the surgery borderline anemic. He was also very fat from all the pediapred for insulinoma so it was very hard to get him all stiched together. Need I say I'm a little worried about this recovery? Even though he acted like he hadn't even had surgery after his last major surgery last year (for a ping-pong sized right adrenal). So.... please send prayers and healing thoughts. Cindy said he's not out of the woods yet and his color didn't look great. Also his intestines were not moving well. So please think a good thought for our little trooper, Waltee boy! Thank you! Lynn Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:46:26 -0500 From: "Linda Iroff" Subject: Milly's insulinoma > The vet gave me a pro-enzyme to add to Milly's food with a few other > suggestions (Brewer's yeast, extra protein, precautions with respect to > seizures, etc.). Recent studies show that chromium (the active ingredient in Brewer's yeast) LOWERS blood sugar, not necessarily regulates it. Previous studies were in cases of high blood sugar, where it did indeed "regulate" glucose levels by bringing them down, but this is NOT what you want to do for low blood sugar. Also, 61 is a low number, whether she was fasted or not. Keeping an eye on her and retesting in 3 months is a good course of action. Avoid sugary treats or high carbohydrates, which the body just converts into sugar. Linda Iroff Oberlin OH Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:53:02 -0500 From: "Sarah Manningsmith" Subject: Replys to 503 First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their kind thoughts about Jackson and Konrad. I still can't talk too much about them, but will soon. Secondly, I'd like to wish the VERY best of luck to Lynn's Wally. He sounds like a trooper! :) Thirdly, to respond to the "adreanal itching" post, my vet sold me Humilac. It's a spray that you can only get at the vet and is ment for dry skin on cats and dogs. Konrad had problems because he never grew back his hair on his back and the skin kept drying out. Anyway, I sprayed him a couple of times with Humilac once or twice a week, and it did the trick! Finally, to respond to the "question lymphoma" post, the only way that I know to completly rule out lymphoma is for surgury and byopsy. You're right in being concerned about a large spleen, but it can be anything from normal weird ferrety growth to the unthinkable. I would suggest talking to the vet about a needle byopsy. They stick the growth with a needle and try to get some cells for byopsy. It's pretty uninvasive for the ferret, but keep in mind that it also doesn't always give real results (my ferret Freddy had lymphosarcoma but the needle byopsies all came back normal). Also talk to your vet about some of the blood tests (that's how we caught Freddy's cancer). There's a place in Tennesee I think that they send the blood to and it can detect a whole lot. As for the "acne" my 23 year old cat had acne for almost her whole life (from 3 to 17). It looked like little black spots under her chin and itched like the dickens. I think that's all for now, my thoughts are with you all. Sarah, Dave, and the two black cats: Jinx and Bagheera Date sent: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:44:37 -0500 From: "Mary L. McCarty" Subject: insulinoma >I just lost Xan after unsuccessful surgery, so going that route would be >very difficult for me. But I'm beginning to think it's the only option. I need >to do something for her, but I don't know what. I'm so sorry to hear about Buddy. I don't know if I would choose surgery at this point, either. Not faulting you or anything, but this situation is exactly why I try to get surgery done on insulinomic and adrenal ferrets before they get really sick. The chance of survival and improvement is so much better at initial diagnosis than once they've gone on so long. I feel so helpless when they hit this stage. It's an iffy situation, what do our vets have to say about this? >We ended up having to put Konrad to sleep last week. He developed I'm so sorry, Sarah :-( >to the vet yesterday. Her blood glucose was low (61). The vet did an >ultrasound - everything else looks completely fine. Liver, spleen, > >Stupid me - I didn't know the vet would do a glucose test, so I didn't >take food away from Milly and didn't pay any attention to when she ate. > So, I am a bit hesitant to embrace an insulinoma diagnosis based solely >on the non-fasting blood glucose. Please correct me if I am wrong. You're not stupid, I'm sure we've all done it at some point Actually, if her BG is that low on a full stomach, it should only be lower if you do a fasted test. I would suggest another test (this one fasted for 3 - 4 hours) in a week to make sure the initial test was correct. Sounds to me that by the BG level she is definitely insulinomic, but you've caught it early enough that she is not experiencing any physical signs. >The vet gave me a pro-enzyme to add to Milly's food with a few other >suggestions (Brewer's yeast, extra protein, precautions with respect to Please do not give her Brewer's Yeast. Yes, studies show that Brewer's Yeast is used to control the blood sugar level....but it is in diabetics by lowering it. This is *not* what you want to use for an insulinoma ferret since their blood sugar is already too low. Lots of high meat-protein meals (meat baby food?) along with constantly available food is good. You've already got the treat situation under control >place I went was to miamiferret.org (THANK YOU, Michael Janke - Excellent website!!!! Melissa, I would definitely retest her in the next week or so, making sure she is fasted. Good luck! >urgency that I am aware of. My problem is that this is the first I've had who >is sooo itchy. She regularly (daily) scratches herself bloody. Is there >anything I can do to make her more comfortable while we await I've used a spray my vet prescribed called Relief before and Vitamen E (break open the capsules and rub on the skin) also. Of course, this works better on balding ferrets (or at least it's less messy ). Hope this helps! >Hi. Our Wally is going in for surgery this Thursday. We'd appreciate >any healing thoughts and prayers, if you're so inclined. Sending good vibes his way - good luck, Lynn! Mary Mary McCarty-Houser, Director Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association of Centre County http://www.ferretrescue.com http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=9903&mid=114508 ---------------------- End of FAIML #505 ------------------------