From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #57 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #57 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:19:09 Hi there. Up late, but Mouse is having surgery tomorrow so wanted to get this out. Mary, if I haven't sent you our duck soup recipe I'll be happy to. It sounds more complex than it is to cook, and our fuzzies love it. There are many recipes out there, but my Hungarian husband is a pretty darn good chef! I'll bet your little Mouse with the big ears is going to do great! I'll bet others have recipes, too. Dr. Karen, I've sent your post about surgery out to the group but am including it in the list, as I usually do after I send more urgent posts out right away. Thank you again for sharing your "inside view" on adrenal surgery with us. Eegads, I admire vets! I hope things turned out well for both, though tough roads may have been ahead - what a tour de force that day was! Karen W., hope it's okay I included your response to the survey, but I wanted to put in the update on Ludwig - yay! I'll bet I get a bit technical at times (I think I know just enough about this disease to be dangerous), and I think you made a good point. To the others, new to our group -- welcome! I recently sent out a short survey asking members about the list, and responses (28) have been favorable. There have been some excellent suggestions. For those who haven't responded, feel free to send the survey in anytime. Thank you to those who have. I'll add more about it later, but there were some things that popped out. One suggestion mentioned putting the addresses in a BCC field, which I would love to do (and have tried), but my server won't accomodate this. Since it looks like the Adrenal List is needed and will stay around, though, I'd like to make this happen and will look into it - in the meantime, sorry for the slurry of addresses. Another thing is that people tend to post to the list without cc'ing the person they're responding too, which might generate more cross posting. I'll write more on the survey later, but the vast majority of people preferred moderation and didn't mind that the list goes out sporadically (with an eye to urgent situations). Hey, I don't feel so alone thanks to all your input! So, thanks guys! I think we're doing pretty well... :) Oh, I'll let you know when we can start promoting the list more. In the meantime, any ideas on software that allows for some automation of lists is welcome, along with good server info. I've heard software Pegasus is good (and I love white horses, even twisty-horned ones). I'm going to go say g'night to my fuzzies. There was vomit all over Townhouse II this afternoon. I would have sworn my cat sneaked in, but Janos swears he cleaned the cages before rounding the kids up this morning. I suspect my bruiser Tarzan (Minnie and Claudette just seem too small to output such volume). There was even a lot of liquid vomit (a quarter cup!) in the treat/cantaloupe bowl - mainly water, and Tarzan is just such a gentleman to aim in a bowl; not a speck in the second floor bedroom. Everyone seems fine, but have separated Tarzan out just to make sure. He's not a chewer and have seen him poop. It's awful to think of my babies being sick when I'm not there. I just couldn't see a thing in their eyes to tell me one of the Townhouse II three fuzzies were sick - nor their poops (vomit was only food, too)... am learning a lot about non-verbal communication from my fuzzies! Fuzzy-ferret hugs, Lynn Mc. Adrenal List #57, dated November 20, 1997 1. Mouse; maryland show 2. adrenal surgery (please post) 3. Adrenal List Survey 4. Bear; Tiki 5. introduction, question about adrenal panel 6. Adrenal Surgery - response (FML); Wally's Adrenal Success! 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:02:49 -0500 From: "Mary L. McCarty" Subject: Mouse; maryland show Mouse, a shelter ferret that was in the process of being dropped off at the SPCA when I found her (and her partner, Pebbles), is going in for adrenal surgery tomorrow (Friday) morning. I suspected right away that she was adrenal as she had the tell tale bald patches and I thought her vulva was a bit swollen, but the estradiol test wasn't a definite so the vet suggested we wait. I was hoping her coat problems were just lack of nutrition (the people were feeding them rabbit food and bread crusts), but it took less than a month for me to be sure (she is SO swollen and just getting balder). Mouse is a spunky little sable girl with HUGE ears. She loves toes, but doesn't nip too hard. She loves to play and wrestle with the other kids and if she wasn't bald, you'd never know she was sick. We think she's ~2 yrs old. Otherwise, she's in great shape, so.....she should pull through fine. I have only experienced one other surgery (my Bear) and it didn't turn out well, so does anyone have any good tips for me? I want to make sure she is comfortable and speed her recovery as much as possible. I have been sifting through the duck soup recipes in anticipation.....any other post surgery ideas would be welcome. Thanks, you guys are great! Mary and the gang... Mary McCarty Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association Co-Director, Centre County Branch http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ferretlady Fatso, Skinny, Maggie, Sweet Pea & foster ferrets: Spigot, Mouse (Ferret Formerly Known as Pooter), Pebbles, Weezer, Rowdy & Fidget! ....also....Bubba & Bruiser...two puppies who love ferrets! In remembrance of Bear, gone to the Rainbow Bridge on June 28 1997 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 21:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn McIntosh Subject: adrenal surgery (please post) Hey Guys. I just got this from Dr. Karen, and thought I should send it out so we could all keep Trouble and Mischief in our thoughts, hopes and prayers. This is a very interesting post, Dr. Purcell. Thank you for sending it. It is especially personal to me, because this sounds like exactly what our Wally with the big tubular right-sided tumor might face. Our vet called it inoperable and he's doing great on Lysodren and may soon start Lupron (lupreulide acetate). Our Dr. Bishop will be very interested to hear about this surgery. I hope Wally's tumor isn't invasive. Our doc thought that because it is so huge, it must be very slow growing. I must go as my pizza is just about done (spent a couple hours making it!). But, I'll be thinking about Trouble and Mischief and wishing them both well. Lynn Mc. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 22:55:51 +0000 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Subject: adrenal surgery (please post) Folks, Had to share this with the list, as I know how curious you all are about adrenal surgeries (those with weak stomachs should probably scroll forward). Had 2 surgeries this am, both male ferrets with bilateral symetrical alopecia and aggressive male behavior. There was some suspicion that the 6 year old also had insulinoma. Exploratory surgery is called that because it can become an adventure - good thing I like those sort of adventures! The older boy had a very large (cherry tomato) left adrenal tumor, and the pancreas and every thing else looked fine. Great recovery, too. The 4 year old had an invasive right adrenal tumor including the vena cava and liver, I had to remove that lobe of the liver, the tumor, vena cava and right kidney. He also has recovered well, though his prognosis is only fair given the extensive surgery. Everyone please keep Mischief the shelter ferret in your prayers, as well as his buddy Trouble. These 2 ferrets had pretty much identical clinical signs, but very different tumors. I'm sure both were malignant as well (no reports on these I'm afraid.). Something to think about. Definitely for both these guys surgery was the only option for future comfort. The majority of the adrenalectomies I do are simple pea-sized left adrenals. I will try to keep a running tally of types and complications for the information of all. Any queries on these cases are welcome, -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 12:01:02 PST From: karen wisniewski Subject: Re: Adrenal List Survey Hello Lynn! In response to your survey. I think you are doing a fine job... my only negative comment is that sometimes its hard to understand, very technical at times. Also wanted to update you on Ludwig....he's doing great, he has a full coat of fur, and now weighs 2.5 lbs. Karen zuni2000@hotmail.com http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:07:54 -0500 (EST) From: MsAnything@aol.com Subject: Bear; Tiki I am currently owned by a 6 year old male sable, Bear. Bear had adrenal surgery in approx. March from which he made an excellent recovery. It turned out it was the right gland (vet said it looked like a brown lima bean instead of a pink pea like it should have). Bear grew his hair back, regained his appetite and once again danced and dooked. Unfortunately, this only lasted about 2-3 months. Once again he began to lose hair. He now has no hair on his lower back, thighs or tooshy. He has been like this since June, but this time around he isn't ill. The first gland had him so sick he didn't eat, drink, nada. My question is: Is it possible that he just won't ever have all his hair or is the other gland now bad? At his age, I'm hesitant to do more exploratory surgery (especially since he seems otherwise healthy). Is this now just an aesthetic thing? I think I'm more concerned than he is. He eats Totally Ferret, ferretvite, ferretone, duck soup, veggies; actually, just about anything - he's my Mikey :-). Any opinions would be appreciated as to the thoughts about his condition and future steps to take. **Interesting to note: We recently took from SO's parents another bald ferret. Tiki has been bald for a few years now (age about 5 1/2). Never ill, no surgery done. We started feeding Tiki Totally Ferret and Ferretvite and for the first time she is around other ferrets all day. Well, the GREAT news is Tiki is growing hair!! After all this time, she now has the feel of a Kiwi fruit. First she turned purple, then stubble, now hair. Can anyone explain how this can be? Misdiagnosis the first time around? But if this is so then why was she bald all those years. We just simply smile and call it a ferret miracle. Thanks for listening and any help!! Dooks, Samone (Bear & Gizmo) (Tiki & Bailey) 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:05:30 -0500 (EST) From: clare@astro.umd.edu Subject: POST: introduction, question about adrenal panel We've just joined the adrenal list because we're concerned about Bridgett and Jasmine and wondering if we should have the University of Tennessee Adrenal Panel done. Bridgett, age 3.5, had her left adrenal gland removed last January. Now the fur on her tail is gradually thinning. Jasmine, age 2.5, has had a scraggly coat since last summer and has bald patches on her forearms. We've been waiting to see if their coats improve when their winter fur grows in, but so far, they haven't changed much. If we were sure that the University of Tennessee test was reliable, we would have it done. However, we had the test done for Jerry last year and the results did not correlate with her actual condition. The test came back "borderline," but Jerry actually had adrenal carcinoma. (Dr. Weiss recommended surgery based on her symptoms.) Our friends got a borderline result for a ferret who had bilateral tumors. Although these cases made us skeptical about the test, we realize we cannot base any conclusion on only two cases. We'd like to know how reliable this test really is. Has anyone kept track of the results for a large number of ferrets? Clare and Bill Sebok Lupi (our dog who has to go to a cardiologist soon) Buttercup (who is fine, we hope) Bridgett and Jasmine (who may have adrenal disease) Bonnie and Charlie (our two new babies who are cheering us up after a very sad year) Remembering Ben and Jerry (who went to the Rainbow Bridge this year) 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:16:11 -0800 (PST) To: ferret-list@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Adrenal Surgery - response (FML); Wally's Adrenal Success! > Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 08:37:09 -0500 > From: katharine_long_at_atkins@JB.FDLES.STATE.FL.US > Subject: Adrenal Surgery > > Lily, 4 y.o., recently went through two adrenal surgeries. The last surgery > was 5 weeks ago. My concern is that her vulva is still swollen, not nearly > as much as before, but definitely still swollen. Do any of you know when I > should start getting concerned (more than I am now) and what should be done > about it? > > I've read that recovery from the second adrenal surgery is much longer than > the first but how long is that? At what point should I panic? Hi Katharine. I wouldn't panic yet. It can take a month or more for the vulva to go down. As you know, though, surgery isn't always curative for adrenal disease. But don't panic. Our Wally has been on Lysodren (inoperable adrenal tumor - huge!) for about three months. You would never know that once he was nearly bald. His hair growth is lush and complete., including a beautifully thick, fluffy tail! (Often hair regrowth, after adrenal surgery or therapy, isn't complete or as lush) Another friends fuzzy, Oreo, had three surgeries and recurring high estradial levels, and symptoms. She has been on Lysodren for four or so months and is doing great. Another friends fuzzy is on Lupron (leuprolide acetate) only, and has good hair regrowth, normal urination (he was at high risk of blockage), lowered estradial reading and higher glucose and better blood counts so at lesser risk for anemia! All three fuzzies are energetic and seem pain-free. Their recovery is being tracked through the U. Tennessee's estradial test ($25-45 depending on your vet). It is a good test to get as soon as you think you have an adrenal fuzzy, so that treatment and recovery can be measured against this baseline test. If you have lots of money, get the whole panel, but estradial is is usually elevated, according to my info though I can't reference this, in adrenal disease. Lysodren kills off adrenal tissue and Lupron somehow gets in between the pituatary/hypothalamic feedback loop to stop the pituatary's tirade on the adrenal gland. Three fuzzies in New Jersey that didn't do so well on Lysodren are doing really well on both Lysodren and Lupron. As far as I've heard Lupron does not have ongoing or bad side effects. Wally will be going on the combo Lysodren/Lupron treatment so that we'll be, hopefully, addressing a couple aspects of the disease. I'm more hopeful than I have ever been that adrenl disease is manageable! Ferrets have had difficulties handling Lysodren's toxicity. So Wally is on a shorter dose regimen than that most commenly used, as is Oreo and Todd's Seldon. He was on three days on, two days off. Now he's no Mon.-Wed. or Thurs, and off for Friday and the weekend - much easier to remember and more consistent. He's had three toxic reactions (the Lysodren builds up in the system) during which he got a prednisone tablet (or two or three in one case, every other day) and was taken of Lysodren for an extra day or two -- he sprang right back. I lost my beloved Percy to adrenal disease. I heard so many different approaches to treatment I was thoroughly confused, and scared. So, I started an adrenal group list. We now talk about insulinoma, too, since that often can go hand in hand with adrenal disease. If you'd like to join the list, or anyone would, just write me and ask to join. Thanks for being there FML! Lynn Mc. ---------------------End of Adrenal List #57-------------------