From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:32 AM To: faiml; mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #61; Dec, 14, 1997 Hi there. Boy I'm beat... after numerous phone calls to Dell, Micron, friends, etc., etc., the Gateway is ordered! and will be under the Christmas tree by Christmas (barring an order screw up). No more million mile lists of addresses in our headings... potential for a Web page, automated list development, etc... I'm really looking forward to getting it and putting the shopping headaches behind me! For those who would like clarification of terms, or just have some suggestions for terms needing clarification, Dr. Karen will be writing a glossary and sending it to me for compilation! So, here's our chance. Send terms you'd like to see in the glossary to Dr. Karen at: drkaren@world.std.com Thanks again Dr. Karen! I've been following the adrenal discussion on the FML with interest, but haven't found time to get involved. Am looking forward to seeing Bob's list of adrenal fuzzies. I'll have to get my fuzzies logged with him! Once I get going on the new com-pooter it will be great to find a spot on the Web to collect people's surveys and archive our lists. Dr. Karen, thank you for sharing your stories of Freya and Muscatel. What beautiful names your fuzzies had, and what lucky fur kids to have had you. You're a special fuzzy vet and many fur kids will have longer lives thanks to you. I hope your pain is finding some solace in the good times you shared with Freya and Muscatel... And, Lisa, so sorry to hear about Kyle, but it sounds like you are at peace with your brave decision. I'm sorry that neither Squeek nor Kyle got to use the wheels, but one day a fuzzy will. I hope all our missed fuzzies are bounding about somewhere over the bridge in a meadow bathed in sunshine and full of sweet-smelling flowers and lots of wonderful fuzzy company - maybe even a two-legged or two! Fuzzy hugs to you all and thank you for being... well, somewhere out there but somehow collected together, Lynn FAIML #61, dated December 14, 1997 1. Reply: FAIML #60: Corticosteroids, Bear, Maggie (Insulinoma) 2. Oreo...[plse post] 3. lots of replies: Freya and Muscatel, glossary, Fiona, insulinoma; Slinky; wasting syndrome (Sandra and Dayna) 4. Kyle, Yod He Vawhe 5. other signs of adrenal disease (please post) 6. Reply: FAIML #60: Slinky 7. Subject: Medical Questions re: Lysodren 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 13:48:07 -0500 From: "Mary L. McCarty" Cc: drkaren@world.std.com Subject: Re: FAIML #60: Corticosteroids, Bear, Maggie (Insulinoma) Karen, >From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" >adrenals produce corticosteroids when malfunctioning, so adding >steroids is a no-no. It's hard to overcome that training, especially Question about this...both of my vets (first one very willing to learn, second one knowledgable about ferrets) have explained to me that ferret adrenals are different than dogs - in that dogs produce corticosteroids when malfunctioning and ferrets just produce sex hormones - that it will not do any harm to give pred to a ferret that has adrenal problems AND insulinoma problems (to treat the insulinoma). My situation....I had two ferrets that were adrenal, Bear was thought to have Lymphosarcoma and Maggie also has insulinoma. We (the first vet and I) decided to put them both on pred to treat the secondary diseases since we decided surgery wasn't a good option at the time (I was very uneducated about adrenals and approproate treatment then). Bear went downhill in about a month and had many complications, which resulted in his death (turns out he didn't have anything wrong with him except adrenal problems - so anyone with suspected Lympho in ferrets be careful of diagnosing w/o more careful testing). I then misinterpreted a conversation with the second vet about pred being what killed Bear. I was very upset and when I spoke with both vets to get the story straight, they explained the difference in hormones (both vets are from different hospitals). I did get some information from a textbook they both use about adrenals in ferret (I think it's called something like, "Rabbits, Rodents & Ferrets") that helped explain things more clearly. I just want to get a true understanding of what is right or wrong....does this make sense? Thanks! You can email me privately if you like. Mary and the gang.... Mary McCarty Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association Co-Director, Centre County Branch http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ferretlady Fatso, Skinny, Maggie, Sweet Pea & foster ferrets: Spigot, Mouse (Ferret Formerly Known as Pooter), Pebbles, Weezer, Rowdy & Fidget! ....also....Bubba & Bruiser...two puppies who love ferrets! In remembrance of Bear, gone to the Rainbow Bridge on June 28 1997 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 16:22:41 -0500 From: dayna frazier To: pfranklin@panlabs.com Subject: Oreo...[plse post] Hi.... I read your post and wanted to offer something I think might count for something.. You did all the right things.. and your little one got back to being what ferrets really are.. lovely fur they are sooo proud of, lots of nutty fuzzy behaviour.. all the good things that make their lives a joy.. Perhaps the drug didn't kill off the cells of the adrenal but I would wager it held it off and made it veeeery slow to get to this stage. Your fuzzy is happy.. and doesn't know she has a time bomb ticking. That counts for so much to the fur child. It's crushing it didn't arrest the course of the disease, but the little one doesn't know that and is still a proud furry sweetheart. I think from that little ones point of view it has been a very happy time with a loving ferret parent she loves very dearly. That is a gift beyond price. I kind of think she would see it as a pretty good trade for years of surgery drugs and sickness. You have given her the quality of life.. and for the fuzzy I believe that beats the quantity any time. I am so sorry your going thru this. It's never easy no matter how many times I know the clock is ticking and has an end in sight. She may go on for a long time..happy and with you in her life very content. That is nothing to discount. I see too many ferrets physically healthy but so sick with loneliness and dispair they refuse to eat or take water. That breaks my heart to see. so much quantity but the quality is killing them. I will keep both of you in my prayers.. gentle hugs dayna and the woozles of the MMOMM rescue/shelter 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 22:47:34 +0000 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Cc: pfranklin@panlabs.com, moxieent@tiac.net, scribe@wtp.net, woozles@inmind.com Subject: Re: lots of replies: Freya and Muscatel, glossary, Fiona, insulinoma; Slinky; wasting syndrome (Sandra and Dayna) Hi, Lynn, Thanks for all the compliments - feels great to be appreciated!! BTW, Massachusetts has made it legal to have pet insurance (finally). To the list at large: > > PS Lynn, I can help with a glossary of terms if you need it. > -Dr. Karen If people will forward terms they would particularly like explained, I'll try to come up with a layman's version and send it on to Lynn to compile. This work for everyone? Lynn? > In memory of Freya and Muscatel, part of my life joyfully > but not long enough. I couldn't write this at the time, but I lost my little insulinoma/adrenal girl the Monday after Thanksgiving. She had a great and loving weekend back home with our friends, but I think the trip was the last straw for her little body. I had lost my youngest two weeks previous to a perforated gastric ulcer (Anyone else had one of these? None of my vet contacts has ever seen gastritis this severe.) and losing both has been very hard. I know they are waiting over the Bridge, but I still miss them. BTW, if anyone needs liquid liver flavored pred 2mg/ml or diazoxide 2mg/ml, let me know. I hate for the meds to go to waste. Fiona, > Fiona is checked by the vet for glucose levels that is why he raised her > dosage from .02 cc's to .04cc's twice a day. When I took Fiona back > after the increase in her dosage the vet said her glucose level was > perfect. My question to the list is: When my vet does a glucose level > test the ferret has been fasted for five hours. I wonder if for some > reason Fiona did not eat as much as she should of the morning before the > second test, maybe that caused the low sugar level and that is why the > vet increased her dosage unnecessarily. Do you think the test could > have been inaccurate due to lack of her maybe not eating enough? I will > take her back to have her glucose level checked this week (I hate, Fiona > hates her nails being cut to short and she doesn't stop bleeding easily) > so it is not our favorite thing to do. Thank you so much everyone for > your help we depend on your input. I will post more later when I have > more time. The test if fairly accurate, and we use a wide range of normal, so that shouldn't make a difference. Why the heck are you cutting toenails for blood? That is way too painful - just have him take a drop from the cephalic v. in the forearm, or the medial saphenous. This is where I draw my samples, with alot less pain for the fuzzy. Pam and family - Great description of insulinoma - we should put it in the glossary!!! . Insulinoma > is caused by many small tumors on the pancreas which causes it to produce > more insuline (did I spell that right?) and as a result the blood sugar > drops. Surgery is usually only a temporary time buyer (but sometimes up to > a year or more!) since the tumors are always getting more numerous and > bigger. Medication also only buys time since as the tumors increase, the > meds become less effective and unfortunately the ferret will die. My thoughts are with you and Oreo. Moxie, > Update on Slinky > > My question is after a ferret has one adrenal removed and regrows his hair back, > how long does he remain symptom free before the remaining adrenal acts up? His > hair at his neck is a little thin, but his fur was never great after the surgery. Can be as little as 3 months, from my reading. > If he does suffer more hair loss, should some of the right adrenal be removed? Is > it better to have both removed or just one in conjunction with meds? I would be > interested in anyone's experience. You can actually have his entire right adrenal removed, and the jury is still out on whether replacement therapy is even necessary afterward. I would recommend pred in a tapering dose post op. Talk to your vet. Sandra and Dayna, How close did this wasting syndrome occur to vaccinations? Mike Dutton let me know that he has seen a parvo-like reaction 7-10 days post vaccination in ferrets. This seems to be rare but increasing. I'm warning people about it, but haven't recognized it yet (except possibly in my Muscatel, but he also had test results consistent with inflammatory bowel disease and/or lymphoma). Treatment consist of supportive care - antibiotics, duck soup, SQ or IV fluids depending on the needs of the ferret. Lots of TLC, of course! -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com In memory of Freya and Muscatel, part of my life joyfully but not long enough. 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 18:24:48 EST From: Lisaferets Subject: Kyle, Yod He Vawhe Sorry to take so long in responding back with an update on our household. We had to put Kyle to sleep last Tuesday. He had continued to lose the use of his back legs, and was messing on himself.. He had become extremely lethargic and was not moving around much on Sunday/Monday, so I decided to have him euthanized. It was really the best thing for him. He was also suffering from an enlarged heart, and the vet believes that this may have been an underlying cause of the loss of use and lethargy. Kyle will be sorely missed. As far as the offer of the cart -- Thanks Lynn, keep it in case someone else might need it. We have a new case of adrenals -- Yod He Vawhe, a silver MF male, 4 years old. Not symptomatic hairloss, but a continuation of his coat change. He has about 4 small completely bald spots on his back (1/4 the size of a dime), but his belly is sparsely covered with hair. No loss around the hip/tail. I am concerned about the boys and adrenal disease, so surgery is already scheduled for the first part of the year. In his particular case, it has been very quick to show signs and very aggressive. Sometimes, it seems that it will never end...... Happy Ferreting Lisa 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 23:07:43 +0000 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Subject: other signs of adrenal disease (please post) Folks, Got the following info, has anyone else noticed this? On all of my adrenal children (3 to date) one of the symptoms that I have noticed is that the pads of the paws get a very dry callus on them, my non adrenal kids do not show that particular trait. Do you think that this particular trait has any credibility in determining an adrenal patient? -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com In memory of Freya and Muscatel, part of my life joyfully but not long enough. 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 17:47:57 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Re: FAIML #60: Slinky > Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 19:28:50 -0500 > From: Joanne Gelormino > Subject: Update on Slinky > I took Slinky, my 6 year old male ferret who had his left adrenal out > over a year ago to the vet two weeks ago for a checkup. He had been > straining a little to pee, although he is able to eliminate. I thought > My question is after a ferret has one adrenal removed and regrows his > hair back, how long does he remain symptom free before the remaining > adrenal acts up? His hair at his neck is a little thin, but his fur was > never great after the surgery. If he does suffer more hair loss, should > some of the right adrenal be removed? Is it better to have both removed > or just one in conjunction with meds? I would be interested in anyone's > experience. > > Thanks. > Moxie Hi Moxie. Removal of more of the right adrenal might well help (there was a recent post on the FML about a fuzzy doing very well after getting it's right adrenal "debulked" (as much removed as possible), a while after it had had it's left adrenal removed). The post may have been by Sukie Crandall. Whether or not you opt for surgery, you could also try Lupron (leuprolide acetate) for the enlarged prostate. I know someone whose fuzzy was urinating 30 times a day due to an enlarged prostate (a symptom of adrenal disease), who put the fuzzy on Lupron with very quick and excellent results. If you want more details I'll be happy to provide them. My main concern is that Slinky could develop a competely blocked urinary tract, which can be very dangerous -- this is what our Percy died from, but he had difficulty urinating quite awhile before he blocked up. Too tired to write much but best wihes to Slinky, Lynn 7. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 18:08:14 -0800 (PST) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Medical Questions re: Lysodren I have a few medical questions. What emergency protocol(s) is recommended for fuzzies who have a toxic reaction to the chemo drug Lysodren (mitotane)? What would happen if a non-adrenal fuzzy (say one who appeared to have adrenal disease, but didn't) were treated with Lysodren? Have vets heard of other cases like Pam's Oreo's, where by all appearanced the adrenal fuzzy seemed to be recovering as a result of Lysodren therapy, but a follow-up blood test showed an extremely high estradial level? Our fuzzy Wally also appears to be recovering through Lysodren therapy, but we haven't gotten the follow-up test yet. If Oreo is indeed not recovering, this could be very bad news for those of us with fuzzies who appear to recovering through Lysodren therapy. Wally has full, beautiful hair regrowth and his weight is fine; also plenty of energy and very playful. How I pray this is not a mean ruse on us. Hang in there Pam. I hope and pray there will be a good answer for Oreo, and Big Foot and Chubs as well. Fuzzy hugs as always, Lynn ----------------------------End of FAIML #61----------------------