From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #07 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #07 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:17:24 Hi there. Some good news on fur kids here (go Rikki, Kyle, and Zoe!), good luck to Sully!, and welcome to a couple new members, Lisa, Amy, and Jan of the Georgia Domestic Ferret Association - and I hope I'm not forgetting anyone; it's getting harder to keep names straight!! I'm updating the biofiles regularly and will send out an updated Biofiles List soon - so keep those biofiles coming! I had a little dialogue with Dr. Dutton, that I included, and welcome the same type of dialogue from list members, as long as the doctors or whomever is writing/replying doesn't mind, of course! Don't forget to let us all know how your fur kids are doing, and putting in a subject line is great (though I've been happy to make them up) with just "post" at the end, which I'll remove. I'm keeping sweet Kodo in my heart, thoughts, and prayers. I so hope he gets to keep his little life...... Lynn Adrenal List #7, dated May 8, 1997 1. Rikki: Right Side Surgery Success 2. Kyle 3. Reply Percy 4. Percy 5. Reply Percy 6. Percy 7. Zoe 8. Adrenal List Intro 9. Reply: Right Side Surgery Success 10. Sully's Having Surgery 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 13:47:21 -0400 From: Dave and Pam Taynor Subject: Right side surgery success Hello everyone, I just heard from my vet and Rikki, my 5yo ferret, is doing fine after undergoing right side adrenal surgery! Yea!!! I am so relieved. It was attached to both the vena cava which he ligated and to the liver. Rikki is a sable, Marshal Farms ferret and my first fur baby. This past October we notice he was urinating everywhere. Sometimes just a little like he was marking territory and other times large puddles no where near a litter box. We took him to the vet, but they couldn't find anything wrong. They performed several blood tests, but everything came up negative. By January the urinating was joined by more aggresive behavior towards our two girls and a little overall hair thinning. This is when we began to suspect adrenal, but he didn't have the "classic" hair loss. Our vet performed a "deep probing" with Rik under anethesia and a lump was found near his left adrenal. But this vet said they only treat with Lysodren, never surgery. So we looked for a new vet. We found one who came reccomended on adrenal surgeries and she opened Rikki up and found a large right side tumor. She then closed him back up as she had always been told that right side was inoperable. Both she and we did a lot more research and found a vet who had done two right side surgeries recently and both were doing fine. So we finally got him to this vet and now his surgery is done with. By this time he has also started losing hair over his shoulders and the aggresion towards the other ferrets has increased. But he always kept his loveable cuddle nature with us. So now I am hoping to have him around for a few more years. We should be able to bring him home on Friday. I will stay on this list to gather more info, since we will always have more ferrets and this seems like something we will encounter again. I am so happy right now! My sympathies to everyone who still has sick babies. Pam Taynor mommy to: Rikki Tikki Tavi Silver Belle Josie taynor@ix.netcom.com 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 17:39:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Ferretlesa@aol.com Re: Kyle Dear Lynn Hi again! Thanks for including me on the adrenal list - I see so many, and ya never know what may happen with them! As far as Kyle is concerned, I talked to the vets that did the surgery and they did completely remove both glands - in each case they were in such bad shape that there was no "good" tissue left to save - I even consulted another ferret vet about the lack of adrenals and she(Dr. Laura L'Heureux) even said that ferrets seem to be able to function well in most cases without cortisone therapy. We have been watching his energy level carefully, and he did go through an adjustment period where we thought he had insulinoma (dragging his feet, no energy, not eating much, sorta spacey) and thats when we had a panel done - it showed his lymphocyte count half what it was 4 months ago, his BG was 82 (this was a fasting test), his albumen levels were moderately high, his red count was moderately high and a couple other readings were of the "mild concern" level, but nothing jumped out at any of the vets as a problem. We did not medicate him in any way for this, and in a week, his hair had grown back in & his energy level was closer to normal. This all happened about 3 - 5 weeks after his adrenal surgery, and thats why I think it was an adjustment for his body. As far as the TF goes, yes it was a recent switch for him - I started him at first exclusively on it, but he doesn't really like the taste, and now its a 50/50 mix. I had heard the same, but my silver mitts don't show the yellowing, so I wonder if its just a matter of being able to flush out some types of fat/coloring? I dunno, not a vet either. You are welcome to post this, and I hope it helps another fuzzy mom or dad. If ya need more info, you are always welcome to email me back. Thanks! Lisa 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:13:02 -0400 (EDT) From: MADWAH@aol.com Subject: Reply: Percy The test (Tenessee Adrenal Panel) comes with normals (they are computed from the submissions) and when three or more are elevated, I consider it diagnostic. Your vet is probably talking about progesterone therapy since testosterone would increase dominence. Mike Dutton, DVM, DABVP Weare, NH, USA 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 22:24:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: MADWAH@aol.com Subject: Re: Percy On Fri, 11 Apr 1997 MADWAH@aol.com wrote: Hi Dr. Dutton. I don't know why my vet says there aren't norms established for these hormones, as it seems to be a pretty standard test these days. Norms computed from submissions? Could you elaborate on that a little? From submissions over time? Or each submission? How could norms be computed from blood from abnormal ferrets? Hm... He didn't know what the drug was but compared it to drugs given to human sex offenders. Then he did some research and discovered that this had been tried but wasn't being done with ferrets anymore. Anyway, he's decided on trying leuprolide acetate (lupron) and we're looking for an affordable source. Another exploratory is probably inevitable, but he doesn't feel it's warranted yet, as it was done last November and the adrenals didn't appear abnormal, though he took tissue from the right and it was hyperplastic with some adenoma tissue. Percy's hair regrew after surgery, though is still thin in places, but he urinates frequently, scratches more than seems normal and is mock mating and dragging about Minnie. Thank you Dr. Dutton, for taking the time to help, Lynn McIntosh 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 07:54:42 -0400 (EDT) From: MADWAH@aol.com Subject: Reply: Percy Most labs run normal values for a specified number of times then develop standard deviations from those to get 'normal' values. You would have to contact Univ. of Tennessee for their specific protocol. Lupron is a human medication that is used to stop the normal ovary cycling in women and for the treatment of prostate cancer. It works by inhibiting the normal gonadotropin release of the body. I have not heard of its use in ferret (or even dogs and cats) so I can't comment on it effectiveness. From an adrenal gland point of view, I would assume that it would be ineffective since lupron stops production of stimulating hormones (gonadotropins) from the pituitary gland that causes ovaries to produce estrogen and testes to produce testosterone. Gonadotropins are not the cause of hormone production is the adrenal glands. There is a transient (2 to 4 weeks) increase in estrogen and testosterone levels also after starting lupron. Need to consider this since estrogen can cause bone marrow suppression in ferrets. Mike Dutton, DVM, DABVP Weare, NH, USA 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:47:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: MADWAH@aol.com Subject: Re: Percy On Wed, 7 May 1997 MADWAH@aol.com wrote: Thank you very much Dr. Dutton. My vet mentioned something about pituatary stimulating gonadotropins and wondering about it, but I didn't quite follow his meaning but now understand. Apparently he'd also read something written about Lupron by another vet that was contary to this and led him to believe it could work. Another hm... Troy Lynn Eckart mentioned a ferret of hers that got a deprovera shot that helped staunch the manly behavior. Maybe we could try that for now? Do you suggest anything besides surgery, though I know that will probably be upcoming, meantime for the agressive male behavior? I spoke with Dr. Kawasaki today and it sounds like he would opt for surgery - says he does 95% of the time. He also is taking out both adrenals -- started this recently -- where both are diseased and treating with prednisone for a few weeks than weaning ferrets off. Says a vet he spoke with at a recent conference has been doing bi-lateral adrenalectomies for 20 years followed by a period of prednisone, and the vet hasn't consequently ever lost a ferret! Could this be great news?! Dr. Kawasaki said theres usually some ectopic adrenal tissue, pinhead sized on average, sitting opposite the left adrenal across the vena cava that possibly is providing the necessary adrenal function. Wow. Take Care and thank you very, very much for your information and help. Lynn Mc. 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:20:47 +0000 From: Jennifer Skeem Subject: Zoe Hi. We haven't provided a "biofile" yet. Our baby, Zoe, is almost 3 years old, and recently underwent surgery to remove her left adrenal gland. The biopsy report indicated that the tumor was cancerous. Her right gland is (as yet) unaffected. I'm fairly certain that she is a MF ferret. She is now gradually growing her fur back and becoming her old, playful self. Thanks for running this list, Lynn--it is appreciated. Jen, Bon & Zoe 8.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:52:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Ferretlesa@aol.com Subject: Re: Adrenal List Intro Lynn Me again - I would like to receive #1 - 4 of the adrenal list - I may not be a vet, but I seem to have good instincts when it comes to my fuzzies! Please send, and I will try to send ya a small bio on my adrenal ferrets - do you want stats on living ferrets only or any ferrets that I have had that have died and were diagnosed with adrenal disease? Please let me know! Lisa NOTE: I wrote Lisa that I thought adrenal stories on both living ferrets and those who have crossed the Rainbow Bridge could be helpful. 9.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:11:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Dave and Pam Taynor Subject: Reply: Right side surgery success On Wed, 7 May 1997, Dave and Pam Taynor wrote: Hi Pam, Great news!!! Your first ferret, too. Our Percy is going to need the right adrenal removed, so your story gives me courage. It is quite a story, too. And resembles Percy's. He has the urinating and male aggression problems, but not the hair loss, though he had it prior to having half his right adrenal removed. His fur is thinned out though, on the shoulders, and now a small patch on the rump, and also the tummy. I guess this would qualify as hair loss, though not the partial baldness he was experiencing before. Congratulations!! I will look forward to hearing about Rikki; I have a hunch his will be a good and happy story to follow. List will go out late, tomorrow, but Rikki's story will sure be a highlight! Lynn Mc. > Hello everyone, > > I just heard from my vet and Rikki, my 5yo ferret, is doing fine after > undergoing right side adrenal surgery! Yea!!! I am so relieved. It was > attached to both the vena cava which he ligated and to the liver. > > Rikki is a sable, Marshal Farms ferret and my first fur baby. This past > October we notice he was urinating everywhere. Sometimes just a little > like he was marking territory and other times large puddles no where > near a litter box. We took him to the vet, but they couldn't find > anything wrong. They performed several blood tests, but everything came > up negative. By January the urinating was joined by more aggresive > behavior towards our two girls and a little overall hair thinning. This > is when we began to suspect adrenal, but he didn't have the "classic" > hair loss. Our vet performed a "deep probing" with Rik under anethesia > and a lump was found near his left adrenal. But this vet said they only > treat with Lysodren, never surgery. So we looked for a new vet. > > We found one who came reccomended on adrenal surgeries and she opened > Rikki up and found a large right side tumor. She then closed him back > up as she had always been told that right side was inoperable. Both she > and we did a lot more research and found a vet who had done two right > side surgeries recently and both were doing fine. So we finally got him > to this vet and now his surgery is done with. > > By this time he has also started losing hair over his shoulders and the > aggresion towards the other ferrets has increased. But he always kept > his loveable cuddle nature with us. So now I am hoping to have him > around for a few more years. We should be able to bring him home on > Friday. I will stay on this list to gather more info, since we will > always have more ferrets and this seems like something we will encounter > again. > > I am so happy right now! My sympathies to everyone who still has sick babies. > > Pam Taynor > mommy to: > Rikki Tikki Tavi > Silver Belle > Josie > taynor@ix.netcom.com 10.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 21:48:45 +0000 From: Beth Subject: Sully's Having Surgery Surgery Scheduled Thanks Michael for your advice. Sully saw the vet today & is scheduled for exploratory surgery next Wednesday. He also has a large spleen but won't have that taken out since his activity level is good & he does not seem lethargic. Rather than spend money & delay any further we decided not to bother with the ultrasound & Tenessee panel. I think his symptoms probably tell it all. We have a great vet (same one Sukie & Steve use) so I'm trying to be optimistic despite our previous bad luck with life span after surgery. Sully is such a sweet ferret I just want him to have a good quality of life & hopefully live a lot longer. I'll let you know how we make out. Beth --------------------------End of Ferret List #7-------------------------